Reuse of damp, screwed up, dropped on floor masks and increase of respiratory illness in school children

[Treesofwood]

Do people really think school children will be able to hygienically manage masks? I reckon they should use them for a day, wipe them in a petri dish in science and then see the outcome. It would be an excellent lesson.

@Treesofwood

I would be very interested to see an analysis on pathogen present on a mask at the end of the school day. Even ones used relatively carefullyI think it's awful to push this on children. Especially with no evidence they even work!

It’s better than schools closing left right and centre due to Covid spreading unchecked through them, as social distancing isn’t possible.

Well, we shall soon be able to compare us opening our schools without masks and other countries who follow WHO recommendations and wear them. It will be a very interesting comparison, I’m sure.

OP I’m totally with you, if a kid (or adult) with COVID-19 puts on a mask, takes it off for class, pops in pocket, puts back on again, repeat throughout school day - how is that not going to mean more virus particles on their hands (through touching mask/pocket) and therefore more spread of infection to anything they touch?

I don’t think most adults are using masks “properly” (they’re taking them off between shops, not washing them etc) so it isn’t putting our kids down to suggest they won’t either, it is just a fact.

In a hospital setting wouldn't the masks be incinerated or specially disposed of?

I have to admit to having concerns about what health risks are present whilst children ( and adults) have to walk round/ tread on what is effectively medical waste as people just chuck them on the ground and in bushes and i cant imagime the site of the grounds as 1500 students a day "dispose" of their mask. Some poor bugger has to clear it all up too

If you take a mask off while at your desk, then put the same one back on to move classrooms, you are contaminating the inside with any virus particles present on the outside. You are then breathing those infected particles right next to your nose and mouth. That will increase the risk of you becoming infected yourself.
A mask should be worn once only, before being discarded into a closed bin (without touching the mask’s outer surface), or washed. I very much doubt that school kids will be observing this, or taking multiple masks to school with them each day.

By closed bin, I mean one with a lid - obviously you have to open it to drop the mask in!

@MoreW1ne, that's a fabulous post. Far too sensible for much of MN.
I initially read 7 years old earlier (and thought, so, surely 7 year old NT children are capable of understanding) Now I see it's year 7!
Teach kids to wear them properly. Teach them to dispose of them properly. Only in England (I'm not including Scotland because people there seem a bit more sensible) can we find 16 problems for every solution..

But what is on the front of it is mainly what would be in your lungs anyway.

If everyone is wearing one there should be a lot less 'pathogens' in the environment.

If girls can cope with period in primary schools relatively hygienically then kids can cope with masks.

Maybe they need built in labels
Monday/tues etc..

Education + health. Vs stubborn parents.
Masks and full classes vs part time learning

I agree fabric reuseable may not be enough. Surgical are better but obviously expensive

Its not foolproof no, but kids are going be touching surfaces and faces all the time anyway. If someone does have it then they are going to infect a smaller number of people with a mask and touching their face and getting it in back to front than no mask at all.

I agree some kids will be hopeless but I think it will help. I would certainly feel better waking down a hallway as a teacher if last 300 kids to go down it at break time had a mask on.

Teach kids to wear them properly. Teach them to dispose of them properly.

This. Why do people suppose secondary age kids are so incompetent?

Teach kids to wear them properly. Teach them to dispose of them properly

Except England ( can't speak for anywhere else) is a filthy country. You cant go anywhere without dog poo bags hanging from bushes or beer cans left in shop doorways. No one here seems to give a shit.

These are the people who raised and taught these children at school how to dispose of their rubbish its probably a bigger job than you think to teach them.

If they had to wear a new one each time they go down the corridor how many would they need to take?

If they don’t wear a new one each time what’s the point in wearing plus bad practise?

It’s not that they are not capable. It’s more to do with the necessary hygiene.

So what's your suggestion then OP? You obviously have one

I know that I'm advantaged here because I can sew so can make sure I have plenty of masks very cheap but I would think the simple solution would be to provide children with several.

If I had a secondary age child they'd have at least 3 masks a day, one for the trip to school, one for the trip home and one for between classes. Different designs and in labelled ziplock bags.

I'd also be more than happy to whip up a load of masks for school to give out to kids who don't have them, as I'm sure many other sewers would too. You only have to look at all the hobby sexists who started making scrubs and uniform masks when the NHS started reporting PPE shortages, to see that people in general are willing to dib in and help when it's needed.

A basic pleated mask takes about 10 minutes to cut and sew.

Wales has been very clear - masks worn incorrectly (which the vast majority are being) are worse than no mask. They draw the users attention to the face and people touch their faces more wearing a mask. Therefore in wales no masks required unless in hospital (not inpatients) or on public transport.

Wales has the lowest rate of infections and deaths in the uk I believe.

I have seen the majority of people continuously touching their mask, taking it in and off in and out of shops, wearing it over their mouth only (most of those are workers in shops and restaurants). And whilst Sweden's rates continue to fall (no masks) almost every country with mask wearing has seen infections rising. 🤷‍♀️

"Wales has the lowest rate of infections and deaths in the uk I believe."

The majority of Wales is very rural so not the same demographic as England. Infections arent down because of non mask wearing. Wrexham (in Wales) is actually on the watch list for lockdown.

I think persepections on Mumsnet re how mask wearing is working for adults and actual reality is way off anyway. There seems to be a suggestion most people are treating the whole thing like they are surgeons performing operations they are not! Most people are keeping some masks in their bag/ pocket and putting them on when required washing them occasionally! They are not Keeping them in separate sterile containers, avoiding all contact with the front using a new mask after every “use” eg putting one on to go to one shop, taking it off, putting another to go to another shop etc.

If this is what is required to make them useful then it’s not happening at society at large never mind on schools! I am assuming it isn’t what is required because the government must know this so “a mask to protect others” just doesn’t require the same level of care as one in a surgical environment.

I have seen the majority of people continuously touching their mask, taking it in and off in and out of shops, wearing it over their mouth only (most of those are workers in shops and restaurants
We are starting to get customers kicking off at work about it all now. Kts becoming increasingly difficult to get them to comply. Its like having toddlers about and having to stop them doing stuff every 2 minutes.

Realistically I dont know how much longer people are going to keep it up, let alone enforce it with their kids.

@MrsArchchancellorRidcully

Wales has been very clear - masks worn incorrectly (which the vast majority are being) are worse than no mask. They draw the users attention to the face and people touch their faces more wearing a mask. Therefore in wales no masks required unless in hospital (not inpatients) or on public transport.

Wales has the lowest rate of infections and deaths in the uk I believe.

I have seen the majority of people continuously touching their mask, taking it in and off in and out of shops, wearing it over their mouth only (most of those are workers in shops and restaurants). And whilst Sweden's rates continue to fall (no masks) almost every country with mask wearing has seen infections rising. 🤷‍♀️

Wales has the highest level of infection per million persons . It also has higher levels of confirmed and suspected deaths: only England are higher .

The only difference is Wales doesn’t have the higher number of excess deaths .

DS’s school are stipulating they need to bring in a sealable wipe clean bag/container for used reusable masks. Lessons will be given for pupils not managing them correctly.

@FourTeaFallOut

Well, of they do a school trip around the covid wards then better masks would be preferable.

Get a grip how dramatic

@MinnieMousse

Teach kids to wear them properly. Teach them to dispose of them properly.

This. Why do people suppose secondary age kids are so incompetent?

Considering that the use of PPE and infection control are specialist skills that take a lot of training, I don't think it's a matter of secondary kids being incompetent, I think it's a matter of expecting the impossible. In a busy, non-sterile environment, masks are at best useless, at worst vectors of disease. Essentially you're allowing infected people to collect and concentrate their infected spit on a piece of cloth that they then touch, put down, leave lying around etc. They won't do that because they're incompetent, they'll do it because they're ordinary human beings getting on with their lives.

Expecting the impossible?

"See you later Mavis"
"Bye mum"
"Got your mask"
"Yes"
"Don't forget to wear it where you're supposed to"
"No mum"

Why is it only on MN that sending kids to school is compared to making them work in an ebola tent all day?

You're also presuming there are infected people misusing masks in your scenario so the hypothesis doesn't work. Let's presume the opposite shall we? Kids are encouraged to engage in a bit of social responsibility (and the 300 I meet every week can't wait to get back, so will do it) wear masks correctly if it's decided that should be the case etc.

But no. There's no point in trying anything recommended by the WHO because we're all doooomed and we can't/won't.

Scorpio, no my point is, that they will be at risk from other pathogens that they breathe into their lungs through unwashed, musty masks. Believe it or not Covid is not the only one.

My post was to Carbuncle.