Keir Starmer says school return at risk

[Icingandflowersonthecake]

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/22/keir-starmer-tells-boris-johnson-your-chaos-puts-schools-return-at-risk

I think it’s appalling the government has issued no proper guidance to schools about what to do in the event of an outbreak. I would say I’m shocked but I’m used to their incompetence by now.

Looks like school return will be a shambles - and before anyone says it, I want schools to be open, I want to send my kids. I just want it to be safe!

Our secondary plan: no masks, except on buses; staggered lunches; no keeping kids in year group bubbles.That’s what we have to look forward to. Crowded corridors, and no social distancing. Can’t wait!

Leader of the Opposition opposes Government policy.

Wow, such big news.

Every area has an outbreak control plan that should be published somewhere. It includes schools.

Doesn’t matter what you call it: PHE, institute of health protection, or the Health protection Agency as it was called before Lansley buggered about with it and changed it to PHE in 2013. It’s the same health protection staff and consultants, the same people are still there ready to advise and support.

They can just fuck off. I'm not cancelling life on the off chance of death.

Lots of people have been pointing out that a precipitate return tomschool, with insufficient safeguards, risks more closures.

Possibly not nationally (as the public was clamouring for in March) but locally, individually or just parts of schooos.

Those who have been calling all along for better planning have been derided, and the straw man of 'you just want them to stay shut' has been routinely deployed. That is unfortunate.

The flaw in (most of) the thinking, is that schools were shut - here and in many countries we use as comparators) when case levels were high. We actually do not know what role they play in community transmission.

As DC, particularly secondary age DC, can definitely spread the disease (even if only mildly ill themselves) there are considerable risks.

It is right to point them out and keep up the calls for better mitigation and contingency planning (what will your child be doing if they need 3x 2 weeks at home?)

It is a shame that all too often those who have been making this point have frequently been derided. Perhaps that'll change now, but several weeks, in which pressure for better planning could have been applied, have now passed.

Still a bit of time, other than in Scotland - which seems to be about to mandate masks in secondaries (after only a week or two back)

@FinnyStory

No, the advice isn't for schools to contact PHE and it never was, it's to contact the Local Health Authority, so that outbreaks can be managed in line with local conditions.

The initial single point of contact may be the local authority in some areas but any outbreak will be notified to PHE. Either by the school, the LA or through the testing structure (tier 1 to tier 2 contact tracing).

If it’s a larger or complex outbreak ie school or care home then PHE will convene an outbreak control team to manage the incident which includes reps from local authority and school.

KS and the unions wanted government to come up with plans for schools opening as safely as possible months ago.

Boris just sneered and screamed "they don't want schools open" to anything said about it.

So now we have schools opening with no real covid safety measures, no funding for measures and no plan B because they didn't plan it.

They are opening as per our moral duty but without the government fulfilling their moral duty to make them as safe as possible.

KS and unions are still pointing out planning is needed.

Agree though that KS needs to start saying "we would do xxxxxx" as there is a lot of shadow ministers coming out with "well we wouldn't have done what they did" brilliant! But you've no idea what you'd have done differently so it's a pointless argument!

Given Keir Starmer is Labour leader, it's worth noting that the Welsh (Labour) Government's plan for schools is basically identical to the English Government's. The major difference is that under-11s aren't and haven't for a few weeks been required to distance from anyone in any setting (rather than having different rules for school).

He knows the public and the economy badly want schools back, he knows the unions are less keen.

This isn’t true. This is how the papers and Johnson have been spinning it (especially the Daily Mail) and now the government has got itself in a right mess where it’s running a belated campaign to convince parents that it’s safe to return to school because polling says a significant minority (especially of disadvantaged kids) intend not to send their kids back. The general public also aren’t convinced it’s safe because they’ve been told that the pubs might have to close and are worried about infection rates going up.

But now when anyone in government talks about this, people think it’s all about the unions (who want schools back in September but are obviously on the side of teachers when it comes to wanting better safety measures as there are currently none for teachers).

I have some sympathy with Keir. He really wants to see schools reopened in full in September. He has pointed out the huge negative impact of prolonged school closures and social isolation on children's mental health and wellbeing, educational attainment and life chances. He knows that this impact is felt disproportionately by disadvantaged children. He wants to criticise the government's atrocious management of the situation while avoiding the kind of public panic that will lead to more children being kept away from school (which will again disproportionately affect disadvantaged children). The issue is timing. He should have brought this up strongly weeks ago - doing it now makes it look like political point scoring after the exams debacle.

I agree with KS, but more importantly I listened to Dr John Campbell's video about the risk of children spreading the virus, and I'd rather listen to him than any politician.

'Children as infection drivers'

@Icingandflowersonthecake

Well I did read and I think he’s saying it’s at risk of working out well in the medium term. Schools will open in 2 weeks, yes, but will they stay open?

Schools in Leicestershire open tomorrow, FYI.

I just want it to be safe!

It can’t be. Schools are doing their best but there is no way on earth schools can go back without a corresponding rise in cases and, ultimately, deaths. You just haveto weigh it up. Children getting an education at the expense of some related deaths (mainly older school staff and grandparents) with parents able to work or schools closed and long term effects on education, parents not able to work, even deeper recession. It’s a no-brainer.

As an overweight teacher over 50, I am expecting problems. But apparently the long term effects on my children are unimportant.

I just want it to be safe(r). Masks, screens and at least an attempt at social distancing. As they are doing in every other country doing it well. Year group bubbles are a farce.
I'm also over 50 and have hot flushes a lot so if they start taking temperature I won't be in much. What some people don't seem to understand is that if staff get sick (what with not being children) then schools will have to close. Keep the staff well and we can keep the schools open.

If so, there’d likely have been plenty of reports of schools having to shut in Sweden with all the teachers having contracted it - as far as I’m aware there were no major incidents despite 100,000s of pupils attending schools for months in a country of otherwise pretty high infection

Sweden is constantly being used as some kind of beacon of how to school in a pandemic whilst very conveniently forgetting differences in class and classroom sizes, social distancing measures, availability of hand washing facilities and sanitizers, cleaners etc, as well as the fact that Sweden has a totally different way of living, is not as urban and suburban As the UK and as such, people aren’t mixing the same which means the virus isn’t given the same opportunity to thrive.

I watched the few weeks of PMQs where this came up (June?)

Keir kept saying he'd written to BJ and he didn't reply. BJ said they'd had a telephone conversation. Keir denied this.

Of course we have no idea who's telling the truth but I know where I'd place my bets!

Instead BJ turned it into a circus debate where he kept repeating the same lines over and over and wanted Keir to make a statement on schools which was all or nothing as he wouldn't allow him to discuss or have the option of "yes, with safety measures and funding"

I think Keir shows promise and I'm watching closely. But he needs to up his game by giving actual plans he have and find a way to get his message across that doesn't involve getting involved with the current gaslighting crew on the opposition.

And Sweden closed for 16+ and schools implemented SD. I want kids to go back with SD. SD that we have to do in every other part of life atm.

Schools in Leceistershire are opening early?

@FinnyStory

Schools in Leceistershire are opening early?

They have different term dates iirc.

I seem to remember when they went into restrictions in July BJ announcing schools would remain open though. And they'd already broken up!

Yes - I do mean I want it to be safer, I realise it can’t be completely safe.

I want the government to support schools to make changes so it can be safer - not just herd everyone in basically as normal and hope for the best.

Just reading about germany where dozens of schools are closing again

@Icingandflowersonthecake that's all we ask isn't it. To be as safe as everyone else is at work. I don't understand why that means we are called names. To keep schools open staff need to be healthy.

[quote mumsneedwine]@Icingandflowersonthecake that's all we ask isn't it. To be as safe as everyone else is at work. I don't understand why that means we are called names. To keep schools open staff need to be healthy. [/quote]
I don't either. In my line of work I really think I would be guilty of corporate manslaughter if I sent my staff into the environment that teachers are being sent into. I've not been able to stop all risk for my staff but I have done everything in my power to mitigate it. It's cost me a fair amount of money and an inordinate amount of time where I worked with the staff who would be working in the situation. Funnily enough as they were the ones doing the job they had lots of solutions I hadn't thought of.

@FinnyStory

Schools in Leceistershire are opening early?

Schools in Leicester open on Wednesday 26. I presume that there will be an Inset or two. God help them, they've only just come out of local lock down.

Icing agree.

Problem lies in the fact the government have managed to set a narrative though that anyone who wants safety measures and a discussion is a work shy teacher or lefty union believer and is failing in their moral duty to the children.

The gaslighting involved is horrendous.

It's not black and white and we need society to see this to improve educational outcomes and ensure the gap between rich and poor doesn't become wider.

Problem lies in the fact the government have managed to set a narrative though that anyone who wants safety measures and a discussion is a work shy teacher or lefty union believer and is failing in their moral duty to the children.

I agree. And now they’re fucked because a significant proportion of parents haven’t fallen for it and don’t want to send their kids back.