Brilliant article, with lots of graphics documenting 3 outbreaks and how to avoid one

[Lua]

Really interesting lessons to be learnt from these cases. See here:

english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-06-17/an-analysis-of-three-covid-19-outbreaks-how-they-happened-and-how-they-can-be-avoided.html?ssm=TW_CC

Thanks, OP, that's a really good article with very clear diagrams. I'd add that humidity is also lower inside buildings/buses and the transmission rate is greater in drier air, less so in humid air.

Loved this, thank you for posting.

That is a great clear article. I read it a month ago. It really made it clear to me that ventilation, amount of time and proximity are more critical than surfaces.

I wish there were more data like this (perhaps there is?).

It suggests perhaps different priorities for school/work return, doesn't it?

I got a letter from school today talking about hand washing stations, and single direction movement, but what help would that be if there is 30 teenagers packed into a room for hours?

Uni also planning long 4 hour session, to reduce students coming to campus. Sounded reasonable, but this data suggest it would be the worst solution, particularly because air circulation in uni and schools is quite bad.

I love articles like this that present the information so visually.

Quite @Lua - there are many more good studies but few that show real outbreaks and HOW they happened in such a clear graphic way.

Schools could be seen as ‘necessary’ workplaces - and given more seriousness I feel. I want them open, however many good workplaces have a hybrid model where people do some at home, some in the workplace - where the building is separated into big sections, and within it smaller sections, and windows opened and masks on. Care taken in eating places and bathrooms.

If the Uni did it in a well ventilated room with social distancing and masks then the 4 hours could work much better than many smaller sessions because there is the public transport and ‘congregating’ before and after with students too. The restaurant example is particularly interesting as it was the people sat in the indoor direction of air circulating and also the loud chatter which meant tables near one side got it, and the other didn’t.

Come winter it's going to be rife, unless they are wrong on immunity. People won't have windows open on buses and mask wearing isn't mandatory. The teenagers all pack downstairs and have distanced conversations.

It's interesting, but worrying at the same time. The good news is that there's no reason to not have outdoor Christmas fairs etc.

It would be nice to have xtmas fairs! I am afraid where I live it hasbeen cancelled already
The problem with uni and schools is lack of money and time to adjust classrooms.

I'm going to bump this. This is an incredible article that really brings home just how and where infections happen. It's got graphics showing where and when people got infected in 3 different scenarios - office, restaurant, bus. If you are a fan of forensic detective shows, you will love the work that has gone into producing this. This is one of the most convincing things I have read about how this virus spreads.

Yep that’s great thanks.

Amazing that no one got infected at the festival from intermingling, only the people who were together on the bus.

Less emphasis on spraying everything/masks/one way systems, more on not putting people inside close together for prolonged periods seems to be the very clear message from that.

I agree. I read this month's ago (probably because of a MN post) and have been trying to explain to people ever since!

Interesting article, as someone who is constantly warm, air conditioning is a godsend but I remember only too well the illnesses I used to catch in a large open plan air conditioned office. Since changing my job to an office in an old building with just windows for fresh air, I've been so much healthier and the new place of work I do come into contact with many people but not for prolonged amounts of time.

Excellent article. Thank you.

It suggests perhaps different priorities for school/work return, doesn't it?

This information has been around in a different format for several months now. This is why teachers are fearful. Cannon fodder, basically.

@Lua

It would be nice to have xtmas fairs! I am afraid where I live it hasbeen cancelled already The problem with uni and schools is lack of money and time to adjust classrooms.

The problem with schools is also that this fucking shitshow of a government have expressly forbidden schools from being creative in taking measures like hiring other premises e.g. nearby church halls to make smaller classes, or having the kids in part-time.

@needaMNnamegenerator - oh, that is a new low! Didn't know this!

The letter from school I got this week asked if parents could help with providing hand sanitizer and wipes, as it was eating up their budget

I keep thinking that large tents outside, would be the way to go until it get too cold

But what really gets my blood boiling is that we could be rationally preparing to provide a better online education to some, so we can better use the physical space for those that really need. I am afraid, it will all come crashing down, and those without support will be the worst off....

Excellent article, thanks for posting.

On a similar note this article is in Korean, but shows how "a person sitting under an airconditioner infected 27 others with coronavirus at a Starbucks cafe in South Korea, but none of employees, who were wearing masks, got the virus."

"The dehumidifying effect of air conditioning is discussed in the article. Air conditioning may dry out respiratory droplets and cause them to remain suspended in the air for hours."
mobile.twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1297169171478794240

Probably a concern for winter too?
(some types of heating potentially lowering humidity, lack of external ventilation, more time spent indoors..)

Those are brilliant. Air con is a real problem obviously.

Bumping.

I feel this is so very important for schools and the wellbeing of vulnerable families. We are walking straight into scientifically proven danger in September. Why won't the government listen?

This paper shows children shed more virus than adults and it will be so much more dangerous to have them all in a confined space without social distancing, ventilation or masks.

www.massgeneral.org/about

bumping

Thanks, very interesting reading.