Would you be willing to be put under house arrest in order to save lives?

[Treesofwood]

Just that really. Would you be willing to go to prison to save lives? Would you be willing to give up your children's right to an education to save lives? This whole situation brings up many philosophical questions for me, and my theoretical response is not actually the sane as my response when faced with the reality.

H*ow temporary?
*
It's hypothetical. Ask the OP.

Yes as long as there are clear rules of engagement, duration and flexibility to receive at home deliveries of essentials etc. Gladly self imprisonment as before for personal record 18 consecutive days and nights back in February March pre initial gentle request to stay at home and then hardened instruction to self isolate because of public unresponsiveness, lack of understanding of deadly pandemic phenomenon and uncertainty. Safe is always better than sorry especially when enemy is silent, invisible and unknown. Not sure if possible for months on end but days or even a few weeks is fine to save self and humanity for civic duty! I rather take this seriously including the short term pain for long term gain and normality. Don’t expect this to be an annual recurrence.

It's temporary. Get a grip.

There you go, folks! Tell that to your mortgage lender or landlord when you can't pay the mortgage or rent because you've lost your job and are waiting for UC (doesn't cover mortgages, you get a little extra more, but not much). Tell that to the council when you get a letter you have council tax arrears. Tell that to the HMRC next year when you're due taxes. Your car lender for the car you need to get to work (and you can't fucking walk or cycle because you moved to a 'cheaper area' to afford housing and it's too far or there's only public transport that doesn't fit your work hours). Tell that to your adviser at the JobCentre when you still haven't found work and they start talking sanction.

See how that flies.

Over the top. Took you a while to type that out didn't it.

No, not at all. I type 102wpm.

@InDeoEstMeaFiducia what was the point of mortgage holidays, credit card payment holidays, furlough? Much better for the 90,000 vulnerable children to be put at risk and the nhs collapse than you be behind on your bills. Of course.

Yes as long as there are clear rules of engagement, duration and flexibility to receive at home deliveries of essentials etc.

Presumably then you'd be happy for another person to take their chances to provide you with the essential deliveries.

Mortgage holidays are for 3 months. That’s really going to cut it in a deep recession lasting years. I presume cc holidays are the same.

Furlough will be up soon (watch millions more lose their jobs, what fun).

If you think those tiny measures will save people you’re deluded

@Violabrit you are coming across as a bit deluded and quite unpleasant.

Do you have a job?

I also think people don't realise al the people who have worked throughout all of this to keep the country ticking over so others could stay safe at home.

The fallout of this will be bigger than just getting a bit behind with bills.

[quote Violabrit]@InDeoEstMeaFiducia what was the point of mortgage holidays, credit card payment holidays, furlough? Much better for the 90,000 vulnerable children to be put at risk and the nhs collapse than you be behind on your bills. Of course. [/quote]
Gosh, I wouldn't know, I have no debts and don't struggle to pay my bills, but it's not hard to realise that millions do and those 'holidays' have to be paid back, with interest. It's not a huge leap to puzzle out that, if you still cannot pay after the holiday, say, because you lost your job, then you could indeed have very big problems with issues like housing and feeding yourself and your children. Are those children not now vulnerable as well? Homelessness is hard on children.

I had a child who, had she lived, she died from infection, would have been extremely vulnerable to infection for about 2 years, to any infection, all of which could have been lethal to her. At no point did I expect the entire world to give up their livelihoods, education, mental health, physical health in some cases, for an unspecified length of time, or any time at all, because of her condition. It just was what it was.

This virus is here to stay for the time being. And people are increasingly unwilling to forgo what is normal life, including earning their livelihoods or seeing their friends and loved ones from closer than 2m, for a virus that by and large won't kill the majority of those who contract it. That just seems like common sense to me.

It's not a pleasant reality, but it's one nonetheless.

Ds doesn't understand temporary so for him house arrest would be intolerable. For him in terms of staying in/ going out I will do what I need to do as long as it doesn't put anyone else at risk. I do not want him to spend years of his adult life in a padded room in a 'treatment' unit which happens to young people like him when their mental health needs are not met and their behaviour becomes impossible to manage.

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia

Yes as long as there are clear rules of engagement, duration and flexibility to receive at home deliveries of essentials etc. Gladly self imprisonment as before for personal record 18 consecutive days and nights back in February March pre initial gentle request to stay at home and then hardened instruction to self isolate because of public unresponsiveness, lack of understanding of deadly pandemic phenomenon and uncertainty. Safe is always better than sorry especially when enemy is silent, invisible and unknown. Not sure if possible for months on end but days or even a few weeks is fine to save self and humanity for civic duty! I rather take this seriously including the short term pain for long term gain and normality. Don’t expect this to be an annual recurrence.

Are you actually joking? "safe is better than sorry" "short term pain for long term gain"

Define safe
Define short term

Also your comment about "the enemy is silent, invisible and unknown" is one of the most hysteria laden things I have seen posted on here, and that is truly saying something.

InDeoEstMeaFiducia I'm so sorry for the loss of your child.

@nether

But most of them have had to protect themselves from the myriad of other freely circulating viruses that could have made them seriously ill, hospitalised or even killed them

Not really, there has been none other where the whole population is non-immune, no vaccine, treatments uncertain.

Yes, really.

When a simple chest infection can land you in hospital you have to be pretty damn careful about where you go and what you do. When a normal cold can cause respiratory failure having another virus come along that poses the same risk doesn't really make a jot of difference.

As I said, no one cared about protecting the vulnerable before covid, even though they were at similar risk from other viruses.

As a pp said earlier, people don't really care about the vulnerable.

I also suspect that those advocating for everything to stay shut are people whose lives were already akin to lockdown life way before covid. The official lockdown has just given them the perfect excuse to stay reclusive; and now they are terrified about the changing status quo.

Yep. SAH mums who always got the groceries delivered from Ocado (no way they'd want delivery drivers to stay at home and save lives!), whose 'DH' has a secure job and who have high-speed internet and a new laptop to 'educate' their children by.

Kind of like those people who say "Well, I hardly ever go to restaurants or pubs so they can stay shut forever as far as I'm concerned." As though the livliehood of millions of people, and billions of £ of tax revenue, weren't at stake. And they probably accuse others of being 'selfish'...

@IcedPurple

I also suspect that those advocating for everything to stay shut are people whose lives were already akin to lockdown life way before covid. The official lockdown has just given them the perfect excuse to stay reclusive; and now they are terrified about the changing status quo.

Yep. SAH mums who always got the groceries delivered from Ocado (no way they'd want delivery drivers to stay at home and save lives!), whose 'DH' has a secure job and who have high-speed internet and a new laptop to 'educate' their children by.

Kind of like those people who say "Well, I hardly ever go to restaurants or pubs so they can stay shut forever as far as I'm concerned." As though the livliehood of millions of people, and billions of £ of tax revenue, weren't at stake. And they probably accuse others of being 'selfish'...

Exactly @IcedPurple. And let’s not forget their beautiful home in a naice area with the large garden with multiple pieces of play equipment for the kids. Residing in cloud cuckoo land.

@Violabrit oh fuck off. I'm a low income family, I'm a single mum and if I can't work then I lose my house.

No.

@Violabrit oh and I spent lockdown in my flat with no garden trying to entertain and educate DS when I have no GCSEs to my name. It was horrendous.

I’m not prepared to completely sacrifice mine and my children’s quality of life and all joy in it, so no. People die every day. Sometimes in horrible, tragic circumstances. We should do what we can to avoid unnecessary deaths but not at the expense of the quality of life of entire populations.

@Juststopswimming

“Are you actually joking? "safe is better than sorry" "short term pain for long term gain"

“Define safe
Define short term”

Also your comment about "the enemy is silent, invisible and unknown" is one of the most hysteria laden things I have seen posted on here, and that is truly saying something.”

My reply to you @Juststopswimming

Many lives are evidently lost to this global pandemic including 50k plus and growing daily fatalities in the UK. So with this and a pending UK depression/economic collapse I ask you politely (as we can agree to disagree as some think it is still fake news conspiracy etc) to think if the lives and livelihoods lost is in any way shape or form a “joke”? The globe is suffering the biggest challenge in distant memory so is this all a joke and not anything to be taken seriously and systematically?

“Define safe”
“Define short term”

Safe would imply if at all possible Covid eradication but in any case a manageable infections rate with appropriate accurate and actual test, track, trace and isolate. Do bear in mind I am not a medic nor virologist and I suspect there will never be an effective medical cure but possibly some better medical interventions and treatments to limit fatalities and increase recovery rates.

Short term (again not medical professional) so I would say in the foreseeable future 1-3 years with 5 years maximum along the lines of previous coronavirus SARS and MERS etc.

“Also your comment about "the enemy is silent, invisible and unknown" is one of the most hysteria laden things I have seen posted on here, and that is truly saying something.”

Yes thank you for this mutual agreement it is saying something indeed. Though see above lives and livelihoods lost as to why it is not hysterical. Technically unlike a traditional war with a known enemy you can see (sense and feel) where your enemy is in the operational theatre of war. With Covid, in the UK we are clueless and naive or recklessly simplistic as we evidently lost 50k plus fatalities and countless more living with the disease and as yet unknown possible long term medical issues. Thus far we have "protected” the NHS bar medics lost in the fight without appropriate PPE. The NHS may be overwhelmed in the future when these medical complications materialise in addition to the backlog of routine treatments.

I think we are evidently at opposite ends of the Covid mentality and awareness spectrum. Some may will think it is still a conspiracy and fake news (eg Trump etc) but I would argue possibly none of us will respectfully see any of this as a joke. Government intervention unprecedented outside of traditional war times possibly indicates that something bad is happening and needs an appropriate civic duty response too?

Finally there are actually governments and populations who have taken this extremely seriously and not necessarily needed a hard lockdown as for instance in Taiwan. Here the total Covid fatalities is still seven yes 7! Not 7 daily but 7 over the past 7 plus months! This is a nation of approximately 25 million, advance first world, mostly middle class university educated and importantly as also Chinese it is so close to the mainland Chinese epicentre with many business and cultural links.

Nope. Covid has taken enough from me already.

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia. How much of the economy do you think will be left if we shut everything down for 1-3 years? Genuinely who do you think will pay for the NHS, pensions, education or the other things that the state pays for. It’s very easy to say that we need to save lives from COvid but how many lives will be lost if we crash the economy?

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia just to be clear, are you saying that you'd be willing to stay under house arrest for 1-3 and up to 5 years to eradicate Covid or to wait until it's safe by your definition?

If you are saying that I wonder if you have children so are therefore saying that you're willing to sacrifice their life as they knew it too.

Five years? For something with covid's IFR? That is insane.

people don't really care about the vulnerable

Aw come on, that's patently absurd. Our entire society is in control measures precisely to protect the vulnerable. Most countries are taking this priority nowadays. And may I say, mostly vulnerable elderly. Societies never shut down like this before to stop spread of polio or smallpox to protect small children. Didn't even shut down like this to stop Spanish flu. Kids always were and still are bottom of the pile when it comes to 'vulnerable'.

Some folk question today whether what we're doing is best because we have free speech. Doesn't mean they all embrace conspiracy theories, or that the vulnerable are being neglected; that is extremely obviously untrue claim. We are where we are now precisely because a minority are being prioritised.