Matt Hancock's statement on returning to work

[JS87]

So I've just read that Matt Hancock has said that there is no excuse not to return to work as there is little evidence of transmission at work and transmission is happening in homes. Given that most of the country has been furloughed/ is working from home then obviously transmission is likely to be happening at home rather than the work place. In workplaces that have stayed open people have either been using PPE (NHS) or social distancing or there have been large outbreaks (e.g. meat processing plants). Given there have been relatively few offices open with everyone crammed back in as normal then I can't understand why he thinks there is evidence that there would be no transmission in these situations. Does he not use his brain?

@StaffAssociationRepresentative

And schools will all be back in a couple of weeks anyway.

Yep, but with staggered start and end times. If you have more than one child in school, it could be a nightmare of you're working some distance away

We have two staff members who can absolutely work from home ( not sales) but it caused a bit of resentment. Working from home saves a lot of money. This was the bug bear in our office, they felt it equaled to a pay rise. I kid you not.

Well it is. I pay £200/mth diesel and extra childcare costs compared to WfH.

Are you saying there will be absolutely zero modifications made for Covid? School will operate exactly as it always has done?

Oh FFS yes. I will be teaching 300 kids a week so for me it makes precious little difference if their parents are able to wrap themselves in cotton wall or have to commute on the tube. I've got no control.

Hands up, I admit that I resent my family having to take this risk. Fully resent it. I could resign but what are my options? Work my notice in risky conditions until Dec 31st then take a much lower paid and slightly less risky job in a care home?

@Frazzled13

Aah it’s totally fine for teachers to go back with no ppe into conditions ripe for infection spread but now they want you to go back to an office it’s not?

Genuine question, but wouldn't you rather teach children whose parents are wfh? My DD (14 months) has been back at nursery since they reopened, DH and I are wfh. We live in a big town, where lots of people commute to London. I work in a town centre office with no parking so have to get the bus which stops at the train station, lots of people on the bus will be commuting into London. Pre covid it was a rammed bus. I have no issue going back to work when asked, but I imagine that the nursery staff, who by the nature of their job have very close contact with DD, might prefer it if I wasn't on a busy commuter bus every day. We've been told for months that every little action adds up to reduce the spread, If I get the bus, catch it, spread it to DD, she spreads it to nursery staff, other children, who spread it to their parents etc etc. Why not cut that chain off transmission off and have people who can wfh continue to do so?

Agree.

And I'm that's absolutely supported teachers who I do agree are being put in awful situations. Because of the guidance not applying in schools.

But we are having what we're having in August because of the measures.

I'm still surprised by the number of people who can't understand if we just sack it all off for normality we'll be back at square one.

You only have to look at some of the hotspots to see what happens.

Are you saying there will be absolutely zero modifications made for Covid? School will operate exactly as it always has done?

No, I would imagine most schools are bending over backwards making changes as per the guidelines, I just feel that they don’t actually mitigate any risk.

We are in year group ‘bubbles’ of 90, which may give a facade of safety, but it doesn’t really as all staff members are allowed to go in all bubbles from all year groups.

The children will be washing their hands regularly-but, tbh, we do this quite a lot anyway.

The windows should be open, but ours only open an inch-that isn’t going to do a thing.

The children will be facing the front in rows-that’s different. It does, however mean that they will all be breathing towards me. Great.

There’s not really much else in place, no.

The things I want to see in place-parents providing proof of a negative test before they return, pupils/staff encouraged to wear masks, extra money for cleaning/washing/staffing etc which I think would keep schools from closing, aren’t in place.

@SaltyAndFresh

We have two staff members who can absolutely work from home ( not sales) but it caused a bit of resentment. Working from home saves a lot of money. This was the bug bear in our office, they felt it equaled to a pay rise. I kid you not.

Well it is. I pay £200/mth diesel and extra childcare costs compared to WfH.

There was a man on the news this morning saying that he has no reason to go back to the office in London as he can do his job from home and is therefore saving £6000 per year on his annual train ticket. Think he lived in Reading. He said his boss was happy for him to continue wfh and go in when needed. He said he has started going in 1 day a week for a bit of variety but the city is like a ghost town. I suspect Hancocks announcement was because many companies in the city are seriously looking at giving up their London office spaces as wfh has worked so well. My DH’s company have 2 floors of office space in one of the very well known buildings in London and initially said they would be downsizing to one floor but looking doubtful now that they will bother with keeping that. DH saves £1500 pa on train ticket and another £1800 pa on train station car parking if he wfh permanently. London will not be the same.

WFH has worked ok for our company short term but we are gearing up for back to business from the beginning of September and I cannot wait
Personally I have worked in the office throughout

Honestly I guess I’d just like to see consistency. I think we need social distancing or genuine bubbles (1 class 1 teacher which is just about doable at primary). That means blended learning for secondary pupils.

It would then be consistent to say workers only back where social distancing is possible which in some cases would mean 50% in at a time.

To be fair if some in the workplace are able to wfh and others aren’t then the wfh could have pay cuts passed onto those forced to continue commuting that compensated for travel costs.

I don’t think anyone should be being rammed into buildings or transport shoulder to shoulder without masks and ventilation.

I disagree that it’s ok for some but not for others.

I also think that of course young people will go back to socialising as normal if they’re being crammed into buses and schools as normal. Teens in particular have a real resentment for inconsistencies and perceived unfairness in rules. You can’t tell them it’s ok to be close enough to smell your classmates breath for 6.5 hours a day but you have to stay 2 metres away after 4 or on weekends

It would then be consistent to say workers only back where social distancing is possible which in some cases would mean 50% in at a time

That appears to be the plan for dhs office, with priority to those finding in difficult working from home

Dh can’t envisage being in the office more than 1 day a week for quite some time

You now have to book a desk at DH’s office, and the number of desks are very limited. WFH is here to stay in his company.

@LimaFoxtrotCharlie

Most of the country furloughed or working from home? Do you have evidence to support that statement? All of my friends and family have been working throughout, outside the home, in shops, offices, hospitals and factories. I know nobody personally who has had covid, except for one friend’s mother, a pensioner who did not work.

Guess it depends on the person and the sort of work they and their friends do?

I'm wfh until next year, as are all my colleagues. As is dh. Out of all my friends I've only known one work all the way through it. 2 friends have just gone back to work from furlough last week. My dd is still furloughed.

2 colleagues got coronavirus, one sadly died.

It’s just such a stupid comment. Not all work is the same. Even small children understand that adults do different kinds of jobs. In different places.

Say you are an office worker and you do have a socially distanced office. That’s great but you’ll still be working from home because social distancing reduces capacity. And how does Hancock think people travel to offices in city centres? Usually packed trains, tubes, buses. They can’t do this now and get to work reliably with distanced travel. It should remain essential travel only on public transport to help key workers get to work on time without being crowded out because there is such limited capacity. Putting pressure on non essential employers and employees to stop doing home working where they are well set up to do so is completely unnecessary.

People might well be saving money WFH and getting time back to spend with your family but if you can do your job efficiently at home then the next step your company will take is to outsource your job to a cheaper country.
Once they start giving up office space to save money it's not a big leap to outsourcing to save money.

Well between outsourcing and automation, there won’t be any jobs left apparently so the government had better introduce UBI!

We are to continue WFH anyway, my workplace cannot be easily outsourced as you need to be a British citizen with clearances to wok here. Same when I worked in banking - background checks, DBS check etc.

If it’s not safe to go out in public without a face covering, how is it safe to go into an office? They can’t have it both ways.

I would really like dentists to open back up fully - my friend who has been in agony with toothache for the last few days can't get to see a dentist at all - has been told to call back in a week if it's still hurting!

This is Great Britain in 2020! Disgraceful.

Clearly there are low levels of transmission at work places / offices currently because a large number of staff are working from home. Matt Hancock then believes rightly or wrongly that if large numbers of staff returned to the work place the transmission levels would still stay low. If he is wrong in this view then that is extremely dangerous advice that will see infection rates soar. If he is right in this advice and infection rates from work places do indeed remain low then that begs the question of what was the point in the first place of the entire lock down / stay at home advice that trashed the economy, cost jobs, Government debt skyrocketing before we even get on to education, mental health etc impacts.

@1dayatatime

Clearly there are low levels of transmission at work places / offices currently because a large number of staff are working from home. Matt Hancock then believes rightly or wrongly that if large numbers of staff returned to the work place the transmission levels would still stay low. If he is wrong in this view then that is extremely dangerous advice that will see infection rates soar. If he is right in this advice and infection rates from work places do indeed remain low then that begs the question of what was the point in the first place of the entire lock down / stay at home advice that trashed the economy, cost jobs, Government debt skyrocketing before we even get on to education, mental health etc impacts.

The fact that France has more of its office staff back in the office and has just made masks mandatory in offices because of the number of cases they were seeing coming from them suggests he is wrong.

Around half the people I know have been working normally for weeks, and no one I know has been social distancing for at least 6 weeks. hospital admissions and deaths in my area are virtually nil.
There is a vast chasm in attitudes between the people i know who have been working (care homes, nursery workers, nursing, plumbing, restaurant staff) and those who haven't.
Public transport is empty here (car traffic's bloody awful so my asthma is a bit shit)
I'm desperate to get back in the office, can't wait. Can't wait for the doctors and demtist to start seeing patients either.
I also don't think magic fairies will be nessecary in schools. Ds1 was in Keyworker bubble for a bit and he told me that you get " screamed at" repeatedly to hand wash and sanitise so I'm sure it will be drummed in.
Besides. What else can we do? Stay at home for another year? Year and a half? Just how long is it going to be before it's "safe" enough?

I also don't think magic fairies will be nessecary in schools. Ds1 was in Keyworker bubble for a bit and he told me that you get " screamed at" repeatedly to hand wash and sanitise so I'm sure it will be drummed in

What about airborne transmission, it’s what scientists say transmit it far more than surface transmission?

What about airborne transmission, it’s what scientists say transmit it far more than surface transmission?

It's not conclusive as far as I have read though. Again though, what about it? We can't stay locked in our houses for years.
I have 2 family members who have been working in small neighbourhood restaurants, doing over 100 people per night since the Rishi initiative came in. They are in small warm spaces, handling plates, talking to people at the tables, no masks ( it's just too sweaty) and they have been open since July 10. That's nearly 2 months before children go back to school.
We have to move forward.

no one I know has been social distancing for at least 6 weeks

Fabulous. Presumably their children will all be packing back into classrooms soon.

@HepzibahGreen

What about airborne transmission, it’s what scientists say transmit it far more than surface transmission?

It's not conclusive as far as I have read though. Again though, what about it? We can't stay locked in our houses for years.
I have 2 family members who have been working in small neighbourhood restaurants, doing over 100 people per night since the Rishi initiative came in. They are in small warm spaces, handling plates, talking to people at the tables, no masks ( it's just too sweaty) and they have been open since July 10. That's nearly 2 months before children go back to school.
We have to move forward.

You do realise transmission is different in every area and can change at any time.

Someone working for two months but not encountering an infected person obviously won’t catch it.

It’s merely anecdotal and proves nothing about how transmission occurs.

I respect your different opinion but please stick to reliable facts.

Key workers bubbles had social distancing. Next month classes won’t have that.

People are asking that they do have that.

No one want them closed.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

I also don't think magic fairies will be nessecary in schools. Ds1 was in Keyworker bubble for a bit and he told me that you get " screamed at" repeatedly to hand wash and sanitise so I'm sure it will be drummed in

What about airborne transmission, it’s what scientists say transmit it far more than surface transmission?

This. Sage and WHO both recognise aerosol transmission now.