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90% increase in child cases over 4 weeks in the US

20 replies

Lua · 11/08/2020 17:36

In case people want to look at some real data...

services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

I am sure it has nothing to do with the re-opening of schools... Hmm

OP posts:
RandomTree · 11/08/2020 17:39

When do schools go back in the US? Surely not 4 weeks ago?!

jomartin281271 · 11/08/2020 17:40

And this is what is happening in the UK. An alarming rise in cases among the under fives.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8615423/Coronavirus-infection-rates-rising-age-groups-65-Public-Health-England-data-shows.html

Notonthestairs · 11/08/2020 17:41

I have friends in Virginia and they are not back in school until 1st week of November.

KitKatastrophe · 11/08/2020 17:45

A rise in cases in isolation is not a cause for concern. If it is followed by a rise in hospitalizations and deaths then that's a different issue. Our cases have been rising very slowly for weeks yet hospital admissions continue to drop.

Jrobhatch29 · 11/08/2020 18:32

[quote jomartin281271]And this is what is happening in the UK. An alarming rise in cases among the under fives.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8615423/Coronavirus-infection-rates-rising-age-groups-65-Public-Health-England-data-shows.html[/quote]
Alarming?

"The latest Public Health England data shows weekly infections have jumped by 40 per cent in infants during the same time period.

But cases in this age group are still relatively rare, with just 3.8 youngsters per 100,000 being diagnosed per week compared to 2.7 at the start of July"

A rise of 40% on tiny numbers makes a small increase.

BarefootHippieChick · 11/08/2020 18:51

But most American schools have only just gone back, and not all are even open. Surely too early to tell if it's from schools reopening?

Quartz2208 · 11/08/2020 19:04

@Lua pretty sure it doesnt as schools are open yet in the US it is still holidays and looking at the below quite a lot arent opening yet

www.today.com/parents/when-will-school-open-here-s-state-state-list-t179718

It is probably because more community testing is being done across the board.

Which is a good thing because it gives us a realistic baseline of cases for which to measure school opening against

moretolifethanthis2020 · 11/08/2020 19:09

And if hospital admissions and deaths aren't going up, who cares. These people are not symptomatic in the main, they are tested like thousands of others a day.

AnaadiNitya · 11/08/2020 21:00

[quote jomartin281271]And this is what is happening in the UK. An alarming rise in cases among the under fives.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8615423/Coronavirus-infection-rates-rising-age-groups-65-Public-Health-England-data-shows.html[/quote]
I cannot take anything the PHE are saying seriously. Are they not under review for how they are collating data?

Cases maybe going up. But hospital admissions are not they are still coming down. ONS are saying less than 20 deaths a day which are a much more reliable source

cantkeepawayforever · 11/08/2020 21:20

The issue seems to me that we are getting exactly the figures expected as downturn in the pandemic turns into an upturn.

Cases are the first thing to go up, in terms of timing.

Given the typical pattern of the disease, hospitalisations of those infected individuals won't happen for another 10 days or so, and the deaths not for a little while after that. So the hospital admissions going down is a relic of the cases going down weeks ago, while we won't see the upturn in hospital admissions due to today's cases reflected in the figures for some time.

The other issue is about who is being infected. At the moment, the rise in infections is typically amongst younger people than were tested during the peak (who were only those admitted to hospital). In terms of the graphs from the start of the pandemic, today's cases amongst younger people would be invisible and not represented at all. It is only when those younger people infect the older and more vulnerable people (who are typically being more cautious so will be infected at home by younger people they are linked to) that we will see a rise in hospitalisations.

Thus I don't see the rise in cases along with a fall in hospitalisations reassuring at all - I see it as meaning that we are due some really nasty figures in a month or so's time.

GoldenOmber · 11/08/2020 21:25

I am sure it has nothing to do with the re-opening of schools...

It's the summer holidays still for most American schools, and it seems like a huge proportion of their school districts are planning on remote or blended learning when they do go back.

It probably does have a lot to do with the US having massive amounts of community transmission and upwards of 50,000 cases a day, though. Horrible situation.

Lua · 11/08/2020 21:29

@ Quartz2208

I don't think this can be the result of more testing, because there hasn't be a 90% increase in cases among adults. Also, they say "Children made up between 3%-12% of total state tests, and between 3.7%-18.6% of children tested were tested positive". The later % per test indicate a high percentage independent of the number of tests being done.

People will say the cup is half full or half empty. The fact that is not deaths is irrelevant. This suggests clearly that children, even primary age is part of the transmission network.

One more data point indicating that the more children you put in contact with each other the more spread will happen, and that schools as usual will lead to a lot of community transmission.

OP posts:
itsgettingweird · 11/08/2020 21:34

@moretolifethanthis2020

And if hospital admissions and deaths aren't going up, who cares. These people are not symptomatic in the main, they are tested like thousands of others a day.
Because if the risk of passing it on to people who are at risk.

Remember we have no idea what happened at the initial peak and how all the elderly and vulnerable for infected.

If it was kids to grandparents then it can and will happen again.

Totally agree that risks to certain age groups are neglible and actually think the more low risk people who get it and are immune will help eventually limit community transmission (this is opinion based on no fact at all I'll add!) but I'm also equally concerned that there may be a really problematic unintended consequence of this that we need to monitor.

IIRC the last pandemic (flu so obviously different) the waves affected different age groups?

FromEden · 11/08/2020 21:48

Most schools haven't started back yet anyway and most public schools are starting online for the fall semester. My DD went back yesterday to in person schooling. I'm happy with the safety measures in place in her (private) school. I really wish the school issue hadn't become the latest political football because then people might acknowledge that there are pros and cons that need to be weighed against each other to determine if schools should reopen. The way it is now you have to be one or the other and if you disagree with one side then you're a terrible bigot and must be a trump supporter/covid denier/liberal etc etc. Its a fucking joke and I'm starting to get sick of this country tbh.

Quartz2208 · 11/08/2020 22:01

@Lua it is definitely proof that the US does not have a handle on it at all and never did - the figures from some states are frightening and potentially havent peaked yet.

I agree that it shows potential transmission from children (although given the age brackets are up to 19/20 and even 24 it needs further breaking down)

But as schools arent open in many states your comment implying that it is isnt true

AnaadiNitya · 11/08/2020 22:20

@cantkeepawayforever

The issue seems to me that we are getting exactly the figures expected as downturn in the pandemic turns into an upturn.

Cases are the first thing to go up, in terms of timing.

Given the typical pattern of the disease, hospitalisations of those infected individuals won't happen for another 10 days or so, and the deaths not for a little while after that. So the hospital admissions going down is a relic of the cases going down weeks ago, while we won't see the upturn in hospital admissions due to today's cases reflected in the figures for some time.

The other issue is about who is being infected. At the moment, the rise in infections is typically amongst younger people than were tested during the peak (who were only those admitted to hospital). In terms of the graphs from the start of the pandemic, today's cases amongst younger people would be invisible and not represented at all. It is only when those younger people infect the older and more vulnerable people (who are typically being more cautious so will be infected at home by younger people they are linked to) that we will see a rise in hospitalisations.

Thus I don't see the rise in cases along with a fall in hospitalisations reassuring at all - I see it as meaning that we are due some really nasty figures in a month or so's time.

I think I’ll follow the stats and deal with what’s happening now rather than predicting stuff no body has any idea over. The hospitals admissions have continued to fall through out the pandemic even after spikes up and down the country. Even when we see good news people are still saying ‘oh no give it a month cos it’s gonna get nasty’ - that never happened at Easter, when beaches were packed out, shoppers queuing for primark, raves, riots... it didn’t happen then!

Testing has gone up so cases have!

The way the PHE are gathering evidence is awful - it basically checks to see who has ever had COVID then keeps checking to see if any one is dead. If they are it goes down as a COVID death - regardless if you recovered and three weeks later you get run over by car. The way the PHE are recording stats you can never recover from COVID. Even if you have.

The way the Gov have dealt with the figures is criminal. It is leaving people to think we are in much much more danger that what we are. It’s also causing elderly people in nursing homes to not receive treatment for bog standard stuff or even see their families. It’s an absolute disgrace!

I could post a million graphs on here showing you that actually were not about to go in to a second wave, we’re doing well - but you wouldn’t believe it as honestly I think some people are enjoying the misery of it.

Polkadotties · 11/08/2020 22:31

@AnaadiNitya 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Lua · 11/08/2020 23:21

@Quartz2208

I agree I haven't been very clear. I meant to say this is an important data set for the discussion about children going to school, not that it was caused by it, but my comment in the end is irrelevant.

I am just tired of people saying there is no evidence of children contributing the transmission. Even more tired of repeating that high school students are a completely different kettle of fish and, that no study suggest they are not just like adults....

I think we can open high schoold under some sort of scenario, but it is unicorn level of fantasy to think we can do it as before lockdown and not see any significant effects. I wish people would just deal with the fact and make plans that will hold, beyond being optimistic.

OP posts:
Glamazoni · 11/08/2020 23:48

Remember that until May the government refused to test children under 5 for coronavirus. It’s not surprising that numbers have gone up when they’re testing more. Also many have returned to nursery because parents have returned to work, which is likely to increase cases.

Quartz2208 · 12/08/2020 07:37

But are we doing it as before lockdown none of our local high schools are?

I would be shocked if any school is. The question surely is whether it is enough.

And the data set of children having it doesn’t actually show they transmit it (nor does it show they don’t) just that they get it.

The under 5s potentially seem to be the bigger transmitters the primary school not so much and then high school same as adults

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