Article in The Times says Older Pupils Spread Virus Like Adults

[FlySheMust]

www.thetimes.co.uk/

Tory spokesman dodged questions about this on SKY this morning.

Is anyone actually surprised?

@cantkeepawayforever

We’ve already had school closures in Leicester. The problem is that any closures (or large numbers of pupils being sent home for two weeks at a time) will disproportionately affect lower-income BAME communities (who have higher risk jobs, inter generational households etc ). So the media will be aghast that poorer pupils across the country are constantly quarantining for two weeks while others are carrying on as normal due to a lack of local flare ups. As if no one could predict this.

I don't believe that primary children don't transmit it either. They might have a less virulent or serious version, but it would be just about the only corona based virus that doesn't spread among (and spread by), small children. We all know they are germ factories.

Probably means primaries are safer for staff though, which is good. Still going to chaos with testing absences and so on though.

One source with knowledge of the research told The Times that as children aged “their bodies start to act like small adults” in passing on the virus more effectively – something also seen in other studies.

Another source said that more cases of the virus were being seen among Year 6 and teenage children of key workers, and that these were emerging in clusters, suggesting pupils were being infected at school.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/older-kids-spread-coronavirus-adults-schools-a4521416.html%3famp

Somehow it needs to be communicated to the government that when the shit hits the fan come September - the blood is on their hands.

And they should be aghast really redolent. The lack of forward planning at Ofqual for the eventuality that some DCs will have a more disrupted year 11 than other should be a scandal. Just because exams are apparently the only was to assess.

You'd hope so, pontypridd, but they will find a way of making it teachers' fault. We won't have been keeping 2 metres away from children at all times, so it's on our heads. And hands. And everything else we touch.

I do think Boris knows that ponty. He is jittery, hence their (inaccurate and misleading) leaking of reports. Hence the constant desire to nudge people to blame teachers and unions.

They'll be livid with The Times today!

The new focus in his words will be on mental health and socialisation as researchers have told him this worries parents more than academics (presumably the researchers have joined Us4Them who see things very much through a primary school lens).

This is why the conversation needs to keep on happening here. However fed up posters like isthatall (or whatever his/her name was) - They can keep asking the same tired old boring question.

Ultimately this discussion is for our children's and school staff's safety. It is about finding a way to safely and successfully educate our children through all of this. And fundamentally (for me) its about the government taking responsibility for all of this. We musn't let them pass the blame onto teachers/children/parents when inevitably things go wrong.

I was thinking earlier that all this guff about the Government being committed to opening schools fully was leading up to Secondaries being part time and blaming the unions.

Everyone (well nearly everyone) wants life to go back to normal. But most people want it to happen safely!

@CallmeAngelina

You'd hope so, pontypridd, but they will find a way of making it teachers' fault. We won't have been keeping 2 metres away from children at all times, so it's on our heads. And hands. And everything else we touch.

They've already set that ball in motion

www.gov.uk/guidance/steps-to-take-following-the-death-of-a-colleague-in-childrens-services

Bloody hell - this is dreadful - isn't it?

I hope the government will start seeing primaries and secondaries as different, rather than just issuing blanket guidance for schools as a whole.

Did anyone else notice when Boris was being toured around the school yesterday for the cameras by 2 members of school staff they were inside, in an enclosed space, less than 2 m away from each other (it looked like more like 1m) without masks? Beyond all irony they were discussing at the time the 2 m rule and how students would have this reminded to them in various ways. It’s beyond a joke.

Covid secure guidance, where it’s 2m or 1m + mitigations unless you’re in the magic of a school building.

Interesting, the issue of older kids spreading the virus like adults is also in the Australian news today but more from a behavioural than a scientific point of view, i.e. they are possibly working, have boyfriend/girlfriend from different school etc.

Just thinking... the study seems to say secondaries spread it based on 10 and 11 year olds.

But they’re primary not secondary. Year 6. (part of year 5 too but I note 7 were the ones back last term)

I know many, many more year 6s were sent back where I am than yRand Y1. Parents were more confident about sending that age in and my friends said they saw it as more vital because of the transition to secondary next year.

Id be intrigued to read the case in full when it’s published so I can understand this further.

Reastie

You’re right.

There were two seats per desk too. The desk looks less than one metre apart. Boris is fairly short so comparing his height to the distance makes that obvious. So two kids then less than a metre, then two more kids. Then there’s the row in front and behind. Zero social distancing.

The plans say no SD though

Well they cant know for years 3/4/5 age. groups.
So could be reception yr ,1 ok and anything above that not

The plans say no SD though

My point was that Boris was meeting 2 members of school staff (not people he would usually see which is something they seem to mention as being key with regards to some measures) and not meeting Covid secure guidance. Even the schools guidance is clear that adults should maintain distance from each other, which is 2m or 1m+.

I would worry about how you discipline badly behaved teenagers, especially bullies, in this scenario.

I just get more down really, I can't understand why we're just trudging along this path to full school reopening followed by rapid closure.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see how it doesn't spread very quickly in secondaries.

@latticechaos

I just get more down really, I can't understand why we're just trudging along this path to full school reopening followed by rapid closure.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see how it doesn't spread very quickly in secondaries.

I think because it is politically too difficult to back down on the promises made.

It is also a genuinely hard problem - how to balance the need for children to have education; the need for parents to work and the need to avoid harm to adults in school and an explosive increase in cases.

Even what seems absolute common sense - to mandate mask wearing in schools for pupils, and visors for staff - is problematic, because it would indicate that there is a problem to worry about, and that means children who need education may not get it if parents lose confidence.

Finding the reverse gear to close much of what has already been opened, particularly pubs, seems like a possible way out of the initial impasse....

@itsgettingweird

They've been saying since the start that ACE2 or something plays a apart in Covid and that children under 10 tend to have different levels and it's puberty reliant.

Don't know science but know it's relevant.

They've said children over 11 must wear masks in shops. Which of course is based on their mantra of following the science.

So no I'm not surprised the science says over 10's can spread it like adults do.

What I'm almost surprised about is that the government didn't think we'd notice science was different in general public and inside school walls.

But I guess their previous tactic of blaming unions and then teachers for the issues has worn thin and the truth is leaking through.

“But I guess their previous tactic of blaming unions and then teachers for the issues has worn thin and the truth is leaking through.”

Exactly this, I think they were hoping to blame teachers and unions but things are coming out prematurely.

You would think people would want cv children and staff to be able to go to school relatively safely.

But no noone wants their child in a mask to save another child parent or teacher.
I like the approach in US better in some places parents choose school or home or mixed. That would refuce class sizes. Some people might make different choices for different children. And it sorts the Cv people too.
Some people are lucky that they cant even imagine having a health complaint or their child having cancer (one child at school) or CF.
Interesting really as known consequences of covid
Possibly t1 diabetes
Thyroid issues
Asthma
Heart problems (aneurism?)
Some of which could kill your child make you worry every time they get a cold or flu.or d&v. And also very dependent on teacher noticing issues and helping with meds.

Keep you make a valid point.

Much more co operation and pre planning could have made a really evolved system that worked.

For example.

Parents having choice and local level plans.

For example if a 2 from entry infant school had 100 parents wanting children in school and 80 want to use online learning you could have had 4/5 classes on school which were smaller and teachers who are vulnerable could have delivered the online learning.

You could utilise TAs.
So bubbles halved. Some do maths and English in morning with teacher and topic with a tab in afternoon and swap.
Then the following week they do their core subjects in morning if they were on group etc.

It didn't need to be adversarial and all kids in to meet some political promise.

And yes, all schools will open in September.

It scares me that so many aren't looking beyond that and what happens if they need bubble, year group or whole school closures.

And if some schools close whilst other don't.

Not remotely surprised.
Dreading me and dcs returning to secondary school