I'm a teacher and I'm scared.

[NebularNerd]

I don't feel safe going back to work in September. When I became a teacher I did not anticipate doing so during a pandemic. I, like many others in secondary schools, will be facing up to 150 students a day, indoors, with no protection.
I am over 40 but not otherwise in a high risk category, although my husband is and we have elderly parents who will be exposed if I'm infected, as well as young children who will also be in school and potentially exposed.
I'm not disputing the need for children to return to school at all. I'm just starting to fear returning.
Anyone else feel this way?

Why Not - no not a conspiracy theorist, just someone who has chosen not to live in fear and believe what the government or media tell me . How anyone has any faith in what they have to say anymore is beyond me. We were told a few months ago by Fauci, masks do not protect . Why do people think masks are so wonderful and protective? Because the media told you? this virus has a 99% survival rate. Why are the majority of you so scared? children do not need their childhood ruined any further . They need to go back to normal and they need the grown ups around them to stop living in fear for a start.

@Triangularbubble

“It's mandatory for those over age 11. If you think it's abusive then take it up with the government.”

I don’t care if secondary pupils wear masks or not, I don’t have skin in that game, but come on. There’s a difference between mandating masks for short optional activities like museums or looking at animals in a barn and mandating masks for 6-8 hours a day, every day, in a compulsory activity like school. The latter might be necessary, but it’s not equivalent.

The poster didn't say it was abusive to make children wear them in schools. They said making children wear masks was abusive.

"Because the alternative is virtual school?"

That'd be one possibility, but there are lots of others. It'd need to be a community-level thing, with quick funding for schools, but in one town there might be a few church halls that could be used for classrooms, or a library space. In a city, there might be empty office spaces, or even a theatre or cinema with extra room to be rented. It could be arranged at local level wherever possible to create more, airy, temporary classrooms.
Or some schools might have room on their site for an extra couple of terrapin huts, or temporary toilets and handwashing facilities.

It wouldn't have to be a one-size-fits-all solution, but anything to minimise spread and so keep schools open wherever possible would be helpful. That would involve some investment and support from government, but by getting children educated, it also frees up parents to work, and so keep the economy going too, so it would be worth it.

Nurses shouldn't nurse? Medical ppe
Supermarkets shouldn't be open? Distancing and e.g. screens
Buses and trains should cease? Distancing and masks
Courts should stop and criminals run riot? Distancing and masks
Prisons should be opened so staff no longer have to work there? Special procedures and PPE

As for private schools? Small classes and distancing.

@TurnUpTheHeat the issue is not that we do not want to teach. The issue is that we would quite like better safety measures.

Nurses shouldn't nurse?
Supermarkets shouldn't be open?
Buses and trains should cease?
Courts should stop and criminals run riot?
Prisons should be opened so staff no longer have to work there?

The point is that in all these places there are measures in place to mitigate the risk to staff.

Masks or other PPE, barriers, social distancing, controlled numbers.

For teachers, NONE of these mitigations are available. no masks or PPE, no barriers, no social distancing, normal numbers.

All teachers are asking for is for measures that are put in place in all other workplaces to be put in place in our workplaces too, because we genuinely do not understand why we (uniquely) are not deserving of any effort to improve our safety.

A compromise would be mask wearing for children 11+ when moving around the school site and in classrooms which can’t be adequately ventilated. I think this is entirely reasonable given that we want schools to open safely and to stay open.

@Michaelschofield

Why Not - no not a conspiracy theorist, just someone who has chosen not to live in fear and believe what the government or media tell me . How anyone has any faith in what they have to say anymore is beyond me. We were told a few months ago by Fauci, masks do not protect . Why do people think masks are so wonderful and protective? Because the media told you? this virus has a 99% survival rate. Why are the majority of you so scared? children do not need their childhood ruined any further . They need to go back to normal and they need the grown ups around them to stop living in fear for a start.

Do know what - I read the peer reviewed science studies. Because I am a scientist. They are gaining knowledge and evidence all the time and hence the advice changes as we learn more. You are behind the times. Well behind. We now have LOTS of very good evidence to show that even cloth masks help reduce transmission both to the person wearing it and from the person wearing it. Visors do nothing except protect you from someone coughing into your eyes. If you don't wear a mask with a visor then it's useless.

Nurses shouldn't nurse? They're wearing PPE and see max 10 patients an hour
Supermarkets shouldn't be open? They have PPE, social distancing, masks and screens
Buses and trains should cease? Screens, masks and social distancing measures
Courts should stop and criminals run riot? They did stop. Many hearings are now virtual and in court social distancing can happen.
Prisons should be opened so staff no longer have to work there? They locked prisoners in their cells 23h a day. Hardly normal contact. I believe PPE is now available for staff.

*I'll bet my last pound the independent schools will open." With social distancing measures in place because their class sizes are smaller. State schools with 32 kids in a tiny room are stuffed. I can't physically be 1m from students let alone 2.

Ritasueandbobtoo9
Heart disease isn't hugely contagious though is it? And many with heart disease wouldn't survive Covid19. And many with Covid19 survive but are left with cardiovascular damage not dissimilar to heart disease / heart failure.

Virtual school is absolutely fine if properly organised. However, many school children got barely any teaching and barely and feedback.

I find it strange that teachers have complained incessantly for the last decade that children spend too much time on screens and it affects performance. The no it's screens are required, the dc don't have them or it's unfair for those with them to access teaching whilst those without them can't.

The other angle is that if school's don't go back parents can't work. Those parents will probably be dismissed. Less tax in the pot.

99% survival rate depends on your age. There is also the 60% lung scarring (may be permanent and lead to the life limiting pulmonary fibrosis - we don't know yet) plus other organ damage. More knowledge coming out all the time. It's not just death or fine....

@TurnUpTheHeat

On the basis that teachers feel it's unsafe to teach may I respectfully ask if the same teachers think;

Nurses shouldn't nurse?
Supermarkets shouldn't be open?
Buses and trains should cease?
Courts should stop and criminals run riot?
Prisons should be opened so staff no longer have to work there?

Who is going to pay for it all, and who precisely do you think will pay your wages? If teachers, like anyone else who choses not to work and fulfil the terms of their contracts, they should not be paid. If the country goes bankrupt, how will benefits be paid?

I'll bet my last pound the independent schools will open. Actually perhaps they should and if all is well that will stuff the union negotiators once and for all!

Nurses have PPE masks are used in supermarkets Bus and train drivers are behind screens Courts have been running through video links Prisons have stopped all education because they cannot keep prisoners or teachers safe in the classroom.

Why wouldn't our wages be paid if we are working from home. I was working more than 80 hours a week from home during term time

If teachers carry on dying and resigning at the current rate, it will be impossible to open many schools anyway. We already were critically low on teaching staff in the autumn, before Covid. To the point where classes needed to be merged in sports halls and canteens. Now, we not only have a ban on using supply staff to shore us up, and can't use the big rooms to combine classes either. We only got through to Christmas by using both mitigation.

Independent schools can implement social distancing. State schools can't

Yes, what is going to happen if the country goes bankrupt? If schools open in dangerous circumstances, bankruptcy becomes all the more likely.

All your list of comparisons and questions simply highlights what a completely different set of circumstances schools are facing.

A compromise would be mask wearing for children 11+ when moving around the school site and in classrooms which can’t be adequately ventilated. I think this is entirely reasonable given that we want schools to open safely and to stay open.

This sounds very sensible to me.

Particularly in the context of some of the other ‘solutions’ being suggested on here.

However,many a few school children got barely any teaching and barely and feedback.

I'm not even going into your straw man screen time argument.

duffeldaisy

While I understand that those who ant to find extra spaces for schools to operate in are genuinely kind amnd well-meaning, I do think that some thought to the practicality of tghis is needed.

To reduce class sizes to 15 (the maximum safe size for a primary bubble in jun, and larger than the maximum class size implemented for Y10 and Y12 for their partial return) you need every school to double in size, both in terms of numbers of classrroms, and in terms of numbers of staff.

So for every standard 2-form entry primary, you need to find at least another 14 classroom-sized spaces, and another 14 teachers. for an 8 form entry secondary, with a similar sized 6th form, you need another 56 classroom-sized spaces and at least 56 more teachers, probably more to cover all subjects.

It just isn't feasible.

Lol @TurnUpTheHeat I find it strange that teachers have complained incessantly for the last decade that children spend too much time on screens and it affects performance

What bollocks. This is a non-issue for me and my colleagues. We do not complain incessantly about children's screen time at all. As a parent it bugs me that my DCs would look at screens all day, every day if I let them, but I've never expressed a view one way or another on other people's children's screen time.

That's comforting to hear saltyandfresh.

@cantkeepawayforever

"It just isn't feasible."

I'm not saying it is feasible to be able to provide exactly enough spaces to distance every single class in the country. But the fact that none of that has been tried whatsoever is a real shame imo.
Perhaps using local resources alongside some blended learning for some year groups would at least help to keep some things running.

In a school of 600, for example, even relocating 4 classes - 120 students - into an annexe (for example with large office rooms, so each teacher could still teach 30, but spaced out more) would then make the school less crowded for those students left. It might not be perfect, but it might make the difference between the school remaining open or not.

It would rely heavily on government trusting local authorities to come up with solutions like that, but it could lessen the impact and keep children in a school environment of sorts.

I'm not convinced by the arguments about how many people teachers see - they will be apparently (and in the vast majority of cases actually) healthy people. Nurses in some places are in very close proximity with known, very sick people. It's not just the number of people you see that's relevant and it would be daft to try and compare like that. Would you rather teach a class of secondary school children who you really don't need to that close to or close proximity nurse and care for a very sick covid patient who you know is actively shedding virus? I think this is an easy question so the fact that you're comparing contact with 1 and contact with 30 is neither here nor there.

'Students in other countries are managing fine with masks right down to the age of 3.
Why are our kids such snowflakes that a simple piece of cloth makes them fall apart. When it might help keep their teachers friends and families from becoming ill?'

A simple peice of cloth will not prevent you from catching covid.

So much fake news and outright lies.

Or some very dim people, not sure which.

Michaelschofield
Can’t believe there is a petition to make teenagers wear masks. It’s horrendously abusive.

We want kids to get back to school. And we don’t want another full lock down. There is more and more evidence that kids transmit it to each other and can often be asymptomatic so they take it home and give it to their parents as well as the teachers. Everyone getting sick at the same time could mean another lockdown or schools closing.

I think this is a good compromise and would still allow the kids themselves to feel safe.

A compromise would be mask wearing for children 11+ when moving around the school site and in classrooms which can’t be adequately ventilated. I think this is entirely reasonable given that we want schools to open safely and to stay open.

Nurses have PPE.
The more unknown status people who you share an enclosed unventilated space with, the more likely one of them will be shedding coronavirus. In the case of teenagers probably asymptomatically or low symptoms.
You could give the same arguments about why masks aren't needed on buses, care homes, shops......

diffeldaisy

But each of those rooms would have to be hired, safety checked to 'school' standards, equipped, staffed and cleaned.

The Government has provided no extra funding, and also specifically prohibited schools from using other spaces (whether to prevent conflict between schools all trying to access the same spaces to keep those spaces available for their normal use or to categorically shut down any expectation of funding, I don't know)