Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Is mask wearing limiting your economic participation?

542 replies

byvirtue · 08/08/2020 12:33

I knew mask wearing was mandatory in shops but I hadn’t heard about the new restrictions that have come out today www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53702291

I had planned to head to a spa for a couple of days this month for my birthday and we were going to book a staycation in a hotel in September. We would have easily spent £2k on these trips.

Now it seems that masks are mandatory for spa treatments and in hotel public areas we won’t be going. I personally find face coverings unpleasant and they significantly reduce my enjoyment so I'd rather not bother.

We are fit and healthy with money to spend and were happy to get out and spend money prior to face coverings becoming mandatory. These new rules mean the opportunities for us to spend money have been notably reduced.

I’m curious are these extended face covering rules going to lead to you spending more or less now?

OP posts:
soasd · 10/08/2020 14:19

I suspect, unfortunately for our economy, that if you did a survey, you would find that the group of people saying they now feel secure enough, thanks to mask wearing, to go back to the shops, being more risk averse, doesn’t correlate with the group of people who, in normal times, would be splashing their cash around shopping spontaneously for goods and services they don’t really need

But the former is completely unattainable right now, isn't it?

The more important comparison is amount spent with mandatory masks vs. amount spent without mandatory masks.

This is presumably affected one way or the other by

a) people who feel safer shopping thanks to masks and are therefore likely to spend more
b) people who hate masks and are therefore likely to spend less

and the reverse being true if masks were NOT mandatory. What we need to know, assuming the only thing we care about is public spending and the economy, is which one outweighs the other. I don't think forum threads can tell us much about that, since most people replying are heavily biased.

SusansSassySidePony · 10/08/2020 14:29

I suspect, unfortunately for our economy, that if you did a survey, you would find that the group of people saying they now feel secure enough, thanks to mask wearing, to go back to the shops, being more risk averse, doesn’t correlate with the group of people who, in normal times, would be splashing their cash around shopping spontaneously for goods and services they don’t really need
According to research on mask-wearing and shopping, your suspicions are wrong.The demographics who tend to spend most in retail are also the demographics who are most likely to wear masks.

Derbygerbil · 10/08/2020 14:38

According to research on mask-wearing and shopping, your suspicions are wrong.The demographics who tend to spend most in retail are also the demographics who are most likely to wear masks.

The older you are, I’m thinking the most likely you are to be cautious and wear a mask... and the older you are, the more likely you are to be richer and be able to spend more, but that’s just my theory. I could be wrong.

ButterMeCrumpets · 10/08/2020 14:38

@SusansSassySidePony

I suspect, unfortunately for our economy, that if you did a survey, you would find that the group of people saying they now feel secure enough, thanks to mask wearing, to go back to the shops, being more risk averse, doesn’t correlate with the group of people who, in normal times, would be splashing their cash around shopping spontaneously for goods and services they don’t really need According to research on mask-wearing and shopping, your suspicions are wrong.The demographics who tend to spend most in retail are also the demographics who are most likely to wear masks.
The only one I have seen is one where in England footfall was down after the introduction of mandatory masks in shops.
PiataMaiNei · 10/08/2020 14:42

Is this retail as in physical shops or online as well?

ChavvySexPond · 10/08/2020 14:52

My husband just leased a silly new car because emptier roads are more enjoyable to drive on for the few occasions he will have to go to meetings or "work hangs" It's more money than his season ticket but safer than the tube and more fun.

I'm looking at houses. If we aren't commuting into London every day, and the government can't get a coherent plan together for schools, we could live farther out, nearer family. And I could go part-time in order to homeschool, perhaps.

And tonight the Waitrose order is coming

So we feel quite economically participant today.

mum2jakie · 10/08/2020 14:58

Took the kids out today to an outdoor park. Was going to treat them to some food from the cafe offering the half price deal but the queuing system and the need to wear a mask throughout put me right off, as well as the kids moaning because they didn't want to wait outside. I didn't even buy a cup of tea from the outdoor kiosk because I resented the knowledge that it would cost me double! Another few quid that's staying in my pocket and not circulating in the local economy...

ChavvySexPond · 10/08/2020 15:04

My parents are retired, and pottering round ships is what they do (did) most days. My dad enjoys tools, hardware and timber merchants, and my mum charity shops and gift shops. They both love a pound shop. They usually stop for fish and chips or tea and cake somewhere.

They haven't done this since the shielding letters in March, although they have been keeping JML afloat off the television.

They've just begun venturing out again. Because of masks.

We have friends and family working in Hong Kong and Singapore and my dad knows his stats. Mask-wearing culture is a huge factor in why their economies kept going and they didn't need lengthy lockdowns. (In addition to their governments not letting it spread for months, doing nothing and hoping dumb luck would intervene like ours did)

DeepTreacle · 10/08/2020 15:46

But people are changing their behaviour - either by wearing a mask and going out, or by staying in. I don’t know why people who don’t want to wear a mask and so choose not to go to places where they are needed are being accused of being hypocrites Confused, unless this is a case of widening the argument when someone realises they have made themselves look foolish?

HeIenaDove · 10/08/2020 16:53

yeah @Derbygerbil those pesky poor people who kept going on ski trips eh!

Im getting sick of your classist crap. Its obvious to me that there is a concious effort at the moment to try and shift the blame for this virus to poorer communities. The same communities who are partly comprised of key workers who kept working all through lockdown.

CatandtheFiddle · 10/08/2020 16:58

We have friends and family working in Hong Kong and Singapore and my dad knows his stats. Mask-wearing culture is a huge factor in why their economies kept going and they didn't need lengthy lockdowns. (In addition to their governments not letting it spread for months, doing nothing and hoping dumb luck would intervene like ours did)

Hear hear Chavvy

I have a friend from Wuhan, who told me that things are practically back to normal there - the city authorities took three days to test everyone and still enforce very strict quarantine if they find people infected.

I find that pretty impressive.

The Wuhan city government took clear and deliberate action. And they are now all back to work, school, university & business. Unlike our shambles of a national government, who flout the rules themselves.

Derbygerbil · 10/08/2020 17:06

@HelenaDove

How the hell did you draw the conclusion that my hypothesis that older people tend to have more disposable cash that younger people was “classist”? And what possible relevance does that have to Italian skiing trips?

Sossen · 10/08/2020 17:07

I’m spending a lot less. I can’t go to the cinema, enjoy a weekend away and I’m spending less in general going food shopping as I now meal plan better and don’t go as often.

HeIenaDove · 10/08/2020 17:22

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/10/survivors-say-they-are-being-stigmatised-for-not-wearing-masks

Rape survivors say they are being stigmatised for not wearing masks
Campaigners say survivors are being castigated despite fact that covering face can trigger flashbacks and panic attacks

When Georgina Fallows even contemplates putting on a mask, the flashbacks to her rape can be overwhelming and debilitating. She is not alone.

Rape survivors are among those voicing deep concerns about the stigma and ensuing “mask rage” attached to not wearing a face covering in shops, on transport and in other public places, prompting calls for better recognition of legitimate reasons why people are exempt.

A number of rape and sexual abuse survivors have told the charity Rape Crisis they are so scared of being confronted and verbally abused for not wearing face masks that they are avoiding places where they may be challenged.

“A significant proportion of rape survivors had their mouths or noses covered, or were choked or smothered, as part of the abuse and violence they experienced,” said Kate Russell, the national spokesperson for Rape Crisis England and Wales. “Covering their face and nose now can trigger flashbacks, panic attacks and severe anxiety.”

Severe distress is recognised by the government as a reason for a legal exemption from the mandatory use of face coverings. But rape victims still fear they will be castigated.

Russell said: “There’s a lot of assumptions that people who aren’t wearing face masks are behaving that way because they’re selfish, stupid, careless or a combination of all three. This lack of awareness is creating legitimate anxiety among rape survivors that if they go out and about they might not be met with empathy and care.”

Advertisement
Fallows, a 29-year-old solicitor, suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder and cannot bear to have her mouth covered, years after her experience of rape.

“For part of my rape, he had his hand over my mouth. As a result, anything over my mouth – even an oxygen mask – can trigger a flashback. And that is hugely distressing. Physically, it feels like I’m back there again and he’s raping me and I am dying,” she said.

The distress she suffers amid flashbacks can be so severe that paramedics have felt it necessary to call the police to hold her down so they can sedate her. “It’s absolutely horrendous. I would like to be able to wear a mask, not just for my own health, but because I don’t want to make other people feel uncomfortable. But even the thought of putting on a mask makes me very, very, very panicky.”

Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
Read more
When she tried to get her hair cut after lockdown, another customer interrogated her about her lack of a mask, refusing to accept Fallows’ reply that she was exempt.

“She told me that was ridiculous and said I had no proof. I cried all the way home. She truly believed that I was a self-centred, ignorant girl who didn’t give a shit about anybody else. I felt completely worthless.”

Since then, whenever she has tried to go to an enclosed public space without a mask, she has been challenged. She is now avoiding all shops and public transport which, since she has no car, is severely restricting where she can go. “I can’t see my family, who live two hours away. If I want to go anywhere, I have to walk.”

She fears this could leave her vulnerable to another attack – she was dragged off the street by her rapist – and so spends a lot of time alone in her bedroom. “I’ve tried so hard to rejoin life again, as it were. But it feels like it has all been taken away again

She contacted her MP, local councillor and mayor to urge them to mount a public awareness campaign about the legitimate reasons for mask exemptions, but received no response.

She has waived her right to anonymity to raise awareness. “People feel like they have the right to challenge you, and that is awful. You wouldn’t look at me and know I’d been raped, but I was, and it’s a huge problem for me. I spend most of my time trying to forget what happened to me. I don’t need to be challenged about this three or four times a day, just trying to live my life. All it does is remind me of something I’m desperately trying to forget.”

Rape Crisis wants shops and public transport companies to display signs and remind customers there are legitimate reasons people may not be wearing masks, which may not always be visible or obvious, and discourage customers from challenging each other.

The Oxfordshire Sexual Abuse and Rape Crisis Centre has compiled a list of ways in which some survivors of sexual violence have found it possible to wear face coverings.

“The list offers support and advice for survivors around face coverings and how they can perhaps make the experience of wearing a face covering less traumatic,” said Russell. She urged any survivor who is distressed or concerned about wearing a face mask to get in touch with Rape Crisis nationally or a local service.

Clavinova · 10/08/2020 17:47

I have a friend from Wuhan, who told me that things are practically back to normal there - the city authorities took three days to test everyone and still enforce very strict quarantine if they find people infected.

A "quarantined at home" sign for the front door sounds like something we could copy - not sure about the metal chain though;

"Allen Li told the Post that her family was forced to stay home for 14 days after they arrived from Wenzhou. Community officials posted a "quarantined at home, no visitors allowed" sign on their door and even used a metal chain to barricade the door and prevent the family from going anywhere."

Sunshinegirl82 · 10/08/2020 18:09

I'm a massive critic of BJ et al but the idea that we should hold the Chinese government up as a shining example of how a government should behave is laughable unless a complete disregard for human rights is now a good thing?

Let's not forget that we might have known about the virus sooner if they hadn't arrested the doctors who tried to talk about it.

If you want a decent example of a government that seem to have done well then Germany is probably your best bet.

ChavvySexPond · 10/08/2020 18:18

If vociferous anti-government, anti-British anti-maskers didn't exist wouldn't we all assume anyone not wearing one was exempt and nobody would ask anybody why they weren't wearing a mask like everyone else? 😷

DeepTreacle · 10/08/2020 18:25

No I think there would still be nasty disablists about as these threads always demonstrate

Sunshinegirl82 · 10/08/2020 18:28

There will be illogical and ill informed people on both sides of any argument.

I have only seen one unmasked person in a shop since they changed the rules. A youngish woman. I smiled at her as I passed (not that she would have been able to tell!) and carried on with my day. It wouldn't have even crossed my mind to say anything to her and quite frankly I think that anyone that would needs to give their head a wobble.

onlinelinda · 10/08/2020 18:36

@countrygirl99 you have misquoted me, or attributed a criticism aimed at me, to me. I do wear a mask, always, despite having a very good clinical reason for not doing so.

countrygirl99 · 10/08/2020 18:56

@onlinelinda I used the quote function on someone else's post. I never said you don't wear a mask. I was taking g the piss out of people who don't think it's good enough to wear one and don't understand that it is possible to not like it but still do it.

Dinosauratemydaffodils · 10/08/2020 19:01

If vociferous anti-government, anti-British anti-maskers didn't exist wouldn't we all assume anyone not wearing one was exempt and nobody would ask anybody why they weren't wearing a mask like everyone else?

Disagree. There are plenty of people who don't think there should be any exemptions at all.

countrygirl99 · 10/08/2020 19:03

@Dinosauratemydaffodils

If vociferous anti-government, anti-British anti-maskers didn't exist wouldn't we all assume anyone not wearing one was exempt and nobody would ask anybody why they weren't wearing a mask like everyone else?

Disagree. There are plenty of people who don't think there should be any exemptions at all.

Yep, plenty of people think those who can't wear masks should stay at home
HeIenaDove · 10/08/2020 20:12

If vociferous anti-government, anti-British anti-maskers didn't exist wouldn't we all assume anyone not wearing one was exempt and nobody would ask anybody why they weren't wearing a mask like everyone else

This is basically a 2020 version of "people cant get PIP because there are too many scroungers"

SengaStrawberry · 10/08/2020 20:16

There’s a new sign appeared outside our Morrisons reminding customers that some customers may have health issues or disabilities meaning they cannot wear masks or SD and to respect this. Sad sign of the times that such a sign is required and people can’t be trusted not to be cunts. As I’ve said before on here Covid will be the least of the worries of someone who dares to have a go at my son or me for him not wearing one.