We are actually going to be testing our kids all the time aren't we

[yukka]

Dd (1yr) got sent home from nursery with 'a bit of a temp' yesterday, it just about reached 38. She had the MMR jab on Wednesday. She was poorly Wednesday, better Thursday and fine Friday am hence sent her in on Friday. By 1:30 her temp was up.

We had to go for a covid test as she's not allowed back until we confirm it's not that.

Thankfully the process was straightforward but it really made me realise how often we will have to do this over the next year.

Because she had a temp on Wednesday (surely from mmr) you have 5 days from first symptoms to get a test. if the test is inconclusive we can try another one tonight/ tomorrow or we have to assume she has it and isolate.

It's really hard to get a stick down to your 1 yr olds tonsils for 10 seconds... I have a gut feeling we will be isolating. And gutted as she only started nursery on Monday having being delayed due to covid and was doing really well.

On the flip side, of course hoping she doesn't have it and mmr is masking symptoms. We've followed all the rules throughout this pandemic it would be a shame if her first week of normality led her to be sick.

It's the bottom one that worries me. Online support was bad in June when the kids went back. If I have one of a handful of children in school shielding when the rest of the class are in, the support will be none existent

See people are talking about being off work because their child has a "snotty nose" or a "cold". I've had a test as have dh and ds. We were all negative but at thr time I had symptoms similar to Coronaviris.Temp, upset stomach, fatigue etc. As far as I am aware the virus doesn't present with a "snotty nose" does it? Or classic cold symptoms? If that's the case why would anybody need to take time off work or school if they have no symptoms of Coronaviris but clearly a normal cold?

@Bbq1

See people are talking about being off work because their child has a "snotty nose" or a "cold". I've had a test as have dh and ds. We were all negative but at thr time I had symptoms similar to Coronaviris.Temp, upset stomach, fatigue etc. As far as I am aware the virus doesn't present with a "snotty nose" does it? Or classic cold symptoms? If that's the case why would anybody need to take time off work or school if they have no symptoms of Coronaviris but clearly a normal cold?

It isn't unreasonable to think the snotty nose and cold might cause a spike in temperature, in which case it's off school until test results back. In our school, that's the whole class.

People asking on threads on here should I test for a snotty nose etc are being told UES, you MUST, they don't know all the symptoms etc so it isn't unreasonable to think parents might call school worried that the snotty nose and cold is atypical clovid19 so they'll be of until the results come back. In schools like mine, that's the whole class. So if little Mindy's Mom is anxious and panics frequently, that's the hole class out.

So if little Mindy's Mom is anxious and panics frequently, that's the hole class out

If that’s how your school has interpreted the schools guidance, I expect they will change their minds at the end of the first week!

@Appuskidu

So if little Mindy's Mom is anxious and panics frequently, that's the hole class out

If that’s how your school has interpreted the schools guidance, I expect they will change their minds at the end of the first week!

I can see a change coming up seeing as no other schools seem to have the same rules bit we'll see

It's the bottom one that worries me. Online support was bad in June when the kids went back. If I have one of a handful of children in school shielding when the rest of the class are in, the support will be none existent

Shielding is changing for DC.

The paediatric list is being reviewed, in the light of new scales of risk, based on the disease generally being less serious in DC, especially younger ones. Many will be de-shielded permanently.

Others in the highest risk groups may not be able to attend school - if that's for the duration, then they would (I hope) be moved to the LEA's tutoring service (without losing school place, as already happens with DC who fall under those services).

What is less clear is whether there will be DC who fall between those two groups and what will happen to them (eg if local lockdowns mean they should stay at home, or if there is one confirmed case, insufficient to burst bubble, but should they be home in case more are brewing up?). I would hope that teachers wouid support off-site learning, just as they already do with other lengthy illnesses that fall just short of the home tutoring provision.

@Bbq1 because everyone is going to be hyper aware of every little symptom that could be misconstrued as Covid?

@nether thanks. We recurved the letter before schools started to open up saying acute cyanosis warranted shielding and to not send him back. No further update since then except the general shield is down. He's on perm O2 which also warranted shielding but his heart condition is so rare it's unlikely to be labelled specifically

The shielding part - the decision to send an advised to shield child into school is the parents decision on what is best for their child. Some shielding children were in school throughout lockdown.

@nether

It's the bottom one that worries me. Online support was bad in June when the kids went back. If I have one of a handful of children in school shielding when the rest of the class are in, the support will be none existent

Shielding is changing for DC.

The paediatric list is being reviewed, in the light of new scales of risk, based on the disease generally being less serious in DC, especially younger ones. Many will be de-shielded permanently.

Others in the highest risk groups may not be able to attend school - if that's for the duration, then they would (I hope) be moved to the LEA's tutoring service (without losing school place, as already happens with DC who fall under those services).

What is less clear is whether there will be DC who fall between those two groups and what will happen to them (eg if local lockdowns mean they should stay at home, or if there is one confirmed case, insufficient to burst bubble, but should they be home in case more are brewing up?). I would hope that teachers wouid support off-site learning, just as they already do with other lengthy illnesses that fall just short of the home tutoring provision.

The provisions for education when off varies across the country. For many it's not a seamless transition and parents/carers face months basically being fobbed off by the LEA.

Finally your child gets those provisions. It might be an hour a week, it might be 8 hours a week.

For it to come from schools, the child has to be off for a set period off time to begin with. Then if the school don't have the money/staff to send someone for an hour a week, there's not a lot that can be done other than complain to the LEA.

It's widely known that young people with health issues requiring time off are already disadvantaged compared to their peers.

And can people please remember that regardless of the illness, if you have a temp you stay away from people until you are 24 hours clear without the need of calpol or whatever.

And yes op, you are correct. This will be the reality of schools opening and I really do hope parents are paying attention to this and planning now for it.

If two students in the bubble are tested positive, the bubble is gone. At secondary this can be 300+ pupils alone, and remember they have different teachers for all their subjects unlike primary and younger. Although they do also have younger siblings some collect them from their schools.

If the teacher is ill and off, regardless of CV, will there be a replacement? If not the class won't be able to come in. The class won't be allowed to be split around the school across all the classes which sometimes happened before CV in primary. The usual policies in secondary, again might close down those classes.

Those relying on school transport. Does you area have enough drivers to cover illness? If not what is the backup? Not everyone on those buses has to wear a mask. Many of those companies services several schools all on the same bus. A bit like public transport!!

Personally I hope the government realise without sd etc like in all other industries, it will be a bigger mess and they need to give schools money so they can have more washing facilities. And they introduce tighter measures including fining parents who do things like dose up with calpol before sending them into school.

@Sockwomble

The shielding part - the decision to send an advised to shield child into school is the parents decision on what is best for their child. Some shielding children were in school throughout lockdown.

Of course they were, family needs differ and plenty of people have had to work throughout or they've needed the structure and support of school. I'm not assuming everyone who has a shielded child has just quit work and endured.

I meant that it is the parents decision either way because of the reasons you said. That schools guidance made it look like it was the schools decision which it isn't. If school disagreed they would have to make it a safeguarding issue.

@Rachel247

But what's the alternative? Imagine a child does have Covid and unknowningly passes it on to 30 other children who then pass it on to their family who then pass it on etc etc!

Lots of testing is the only solution imo.

This. People seem to be unhappy at every possible measure that might help.

@Sockwomble

I meant that it is the parents decision either way because of the reasons you said. That schools guidance made it look like it was the schools decision which it isn't. If school disagreed they would have to make it a safeguarding issue.

Ok fair enough. Although our school did call on the Tuesday and ask us to collect him and keep him as they'd spoken to educational health and decided he shouldn't be in, so schools can certainly make parents feel like it's a decision boy a discussion

^*I work for the NHS and can’t see them being too understanding if I need to be off for 14 days potentially every couple of weeks as my children get every cold going
*^

You won't need to be off for 14 days each time if you can have your child tested. Most tests are coming back within 24 hours now so a day or two perhaps.

At my school only the child with symptoms goes home.
They can return if they have a negative test result or after 10 days of isolation. But we aren't allowed to ask for evidence of a negative result - we have to trust the parents to do the right thing.

If a child tests positive - again based on the trust of being told by the parent - then anyone with close face to face contact for more than 15 minutes at a time will be asked to self isolate for 14 days, teacher and pupils. Not the whole bubble.

Only if there is a second positive within a time period does the whole bubble close.

The whole school only closes if PHE says so, after consultation.

However if the teacher had to self isolate then it may be the bubbles have to close anyway if there isn't staff to cover it enough supply staff available and willing to cover. That's not really covered by the guidance though.

I can definitely rethink of some parents I've encountered over the years of teaching who I wouldn't necessarily trust to tell the truth over the test results.

In infants but our bubbles are officially the year group - that's in order to fit in playtimes and lunch etc and still offer the full teaching day, and allowing for the fact that some of our rooms are open to other rooms with no doors or windows between them. Just half walls.

We will have class groups who are mostly separate from the other classes, but year group bubbles.

One or two staff, such as myself, have the whole school as their bubble.

However if the teacher had to self isolate then it may be the bubbles have to close anyway if there isn't staff to cover it enough supply staff available and willing to cover. That's not really covered by the guidance though. Thinking about it o suspect this is why if one goes down, we all go at it school. If DS has a cough, then his 121 would need to be off and anyone else who taught him a lesson which would mean not enough teachers to teach whoever they could identify as not being near him.

@Aragog that will be great if that is agreed across the board but I’ve seen people Sharing stuff for
Scotland saying some areas are saying you will still need to isolate even if negative

I think that's the government guidance stuff which my school have on their new risk assessment documents.

I would change some aspects personally though.

I think that to come back earlier than ten days then the negative result should have to be shared with the school, for their records. And I think we ought to know about confirmed positives in the immediate family too, not just the child in the class.

And I think we need to be very careful as to not underplay any risk, especially for vulnerable staff and children, if there is a positive case in a class.

We already know that some parents send their children in when they're ill so it's really important we come down hard on this straight away, so that the message is out there loud and clear.

You have to swab the tonsils for 10 seconds without the swab touching the inside of the mouth or tongue. It's hard enough for most compliant and consenting adults to manage that on themselves (or have it done to them).

tbh, I have psoriatic arthritis in my hands. Despite that, I'm the only person in this house who'd be able to swab someone else and I sincerely doubt my ability to do it. I know this from relatively innocuous stuff like applying eye-drops, taking community MRSA swabs from others etc. I've no idea how I'm supposed to gain the consent of a family member with dementia or delirium.

It's going to be a very long Winter.

@EmbarrassingAdmissions

You have to swab the tonsils for 10 seconds without the swab touching the inside of the mouth or tongue. It's hard enough for most compliant and consenting adults to manage that on themselves (or have it done to them).

tbh, I have psoriatic arthritis in my hands. Despite that, I'm the only person in this house who'd be able to swab someone else and I sincerely doubt my ability to do it. I know this from relatively innocuous stuff like applying eye-drops, taking community MRSA swabs from others etc. I've no idea how I'm supposed to gain the consent of a family member with dementia or delirium.

It's going to be a very long Winter.

When we went they said they can assist with swabbing anyone aged 12+ (presumably due to consent?) at the drive through place

I’m dreading.. how do you test a baby for example? I’ve got a 5 month old & if she’s anything like my first, will have a temp every 5 minutes from teething from 6-12 months?! Am I meant to test her everytime? I’ve got a 3 year old in nursery & we go out & about living life these days so there’s always a chance we’ll catch it.. 🥴

With the length of time so many children have been away from others now their natural immune has probably suffered a lot.