Is anyone not sending their secondary school child back initially?

[lastkisstoo]

I've decided to keep my 15 year old home, probably until the October hols to see what happens.

We are in Scotland. What just happened in the pubs in Aberdeen is exactly what I see happening in schools. Mostly young adults, enclosed space, no social distancing.

My child has asthma, and while not on the list for sheltering I still feel is vulnerable enough that I don't want to see him being used as a guinea pig while the government assess just how big the uptick in cases will be on schools re-opening.

@labyrinthloafer I think it’s about 156.25% 🤓

This is particularly helpful at contextualising the risks by age medium.com/wintoncentre/what-have-been-the-fatal-risks-of-covid-particularly-to-children-and-younger-adults-a5cbf7060c49

I think it one of the things that upsets me most is I can keep them off easily enough by lying about health. But if I'm honest we'll potentially get bullied.

SpanishPork lol at referring them for anxiety!
Well im going to sue the government for lack of duty of care towards the students!
That will be especially easily won regarding ECV and EV students. Other environments have to be covid secure too so clear discrimination also against teachers.
If you have say asthma (do you have that?) You would know what it is like
-to make sure you have your medicine
-to have your flu jab
-to look after your health
Yiu know what it is like to suffocate and not be able to breath. You dont need to imagine whsg covid woud be like.
And you do not want further messed up lungs

None of the measures make it any safer in schools
And lets call it what it really is
The class of 30/60/90/200+ is a mass gathering. Inside.
Yes it's possible the teachers/ta didnt get it in school but so it's possible the hcp got it elsewhere. Everyone was advised against going -there could have been more covid kids at school than patients in some hospitals?

Children are not given the vaccine for flu

They are in UK, by the sniff, on NHS for all DC age 2-11.

Medically vulnerabe DC of all ages from 6months also receive it.

I think they're adding 12 yos to this year's routine schedule.

@labyrinthloafer

I think it one of the things that upsets me most is I can keep them off easily enough by lying about health. But if I'm honest we'll potentially get bullied.

I know exactly what you mean. It’s bonkers atm. The pretence of everything is back to normal is starting to skip though I think.

Slip!

I sincerely hope so @sunseekin

Our 13 year old is going back and 16 going to college. Each to their own I thought it was compulsory they went back.

Sorry, what exactly is going on here?

I was aware that keeping children off will result in fines in England, but not in Wales, and that they’re £60 per child - but what’s all this about court appearances and criminal records which will affect career prospects?

Does that happen alongside the fine? Or only if you refuse to pay it?
How come I’ve known parents pay fines to take their children on holiday in the last week of term, not keeping them off for reasons of pandemic, and yet they’ve not been taken to court?

And to the people so keen to keep on about how this will affect our children’s mental health, our family’s finances and now parents’ future chances of employment, what are you hoping to achieve? The nicest I can assume is you all run home-learning courses and just want parents to deregister and home-school full time following your curriculum. Otherwise, does any of this have any root in reality, or do you enjoy scaremongering people who are already very anxious about all this?

COVID Deaths in England for kids age 0-19 = 33

coronavirus.data.gov.uk/deaths?areaType=nation&areaName=England

From population of age 0-19 = 12.6 million
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographyoff_England#Age

Sorry, UK gov only gives age group deaths for England, not for the other 3 nations

DS is 13 going into year 9. I am clinically vulnerable (not shielding) and very worried about schools returning full time. I'm hoping that there will be some concessions in the guidelines, eg temperature checks at registration, masks for secondary aged kids, and improvements for track and trace. I really think it's madness them going back full time with no social distancing and would much prefer a blended approach and see how it goes from there. DS is desperate to go back and wouldn't forgive me if I didn't let him go back if school is open for him. If he wasn't bothered about going back, I would be having the same thoughts as you OP.

Some people want other parents to suffer if they have different views on returning kids to school

Whether that is the side with authoritarian threats of SS & fantasies about jail or MH referrals
or the side with mostly disproportionate fears of illness or bereavement

You do you
Someone else choosing to send / not send kids doesn't hurt your kids at all

imo, parents should be allowed - as in Wales - to keep kids home, without fines,
provided the child is not under a Child Protection Plan

BUT schools should not offer any educational help whatsoever to those children
If parents decide, then they do all the extra work

This could avoid mass deregistration in some areas and loss of funds to schools
Kids that are in school would actually benefit from more space and a better staff ratio

Yes, vulnerable kids - not vulnerable enough for a Protection Plan - might not return, but that's no reason to remove freedom of choice from all the other parents
Parents could deregister vulnerable kids just as easily as anyone else

There is no answer to this dilemma as many of us don't even regard it as a dilemma. It's a matter of understanding the issue and balancing the risk.

Sorry to disappoint the likes of SpanishPork but for me this doesn't mean locking myself and kids in the house whilst clutching my pearls and knocking back Valium as I pour over charts tracking the epidemic on an hourly basis .. desperately trying to stave off panic attacks caused by as yet undiagnosed health anxiety....

It simply involves understanding the problem. (A highly virulent illness that is spread by sputum droplets from both symptomatic and (more concerning) asymptotic infected persons. With an estimated direct projectile radius of 1.5m when droplets are ejected from the body via sneezing, coughing, shouting, or spitting.
This spread is compounded by the ability for the virus to live on 'hard surfaces for up to 72 hours.

The rate of infection needs to stay below one or the spread will double, triple, quadruple etc

Therefore the answer is simple . If we adhere to strict social distancing , constantly clean where hands have been and wear a covering to avoid sputum droplets reaching another person - then we will get this down to a manageable level ..

Are these measures possible in a full school as well as transport there and back ? If not then it's just not safe for anyone who works there. and the wider community.

To insist otherwise is to ignore the facts.

Some may say that they don't care and that education in a school is paramount. That is more important than protecting the lives of the older and more vulnerable.

It's a choice which we will all make. I do not believe we can have both.

@nostaples

But orchids are you seriously saying that children, who are least at risk, should be denied an education to protect old people when the R rate is falling snywsy?

The r rate is not falling at all!

Boris Johnson : Parents should have the right whether to send their children back to school in September. - Sign the Petition! chng.it/N76dqb4y via @UKChange

I think it one of the things that upsets me most is I can keep them off easily enough by lying about health. But if I'm honest we'll potentially get bullied

A court will expect to see substantial medical evidence to support your child's case for staying at home on the grounds of medical reasons. You can not lie to a doctor, probably more than one and make up a reason to keep your child at home, they simply won't believe you or provide the necessary paperwork you will need to support your case. A long term health problem would have years of medical records that would be provided to the courts.

May I kindly suggest you request some support regarding your fears of the return to school - talk to the GP and the school. Both can help. You have already said your children are healthy labyrinthloafer your idea about lying about their health is very, very extreme, and almost certainly will fail.
Going to such extreme lengths to stop your child from having an education does not reasonable.

May I kindly suggest you request some support regarding your fears of the return to school - talk to the GP and the school. Both can help. You have already said your children are healthy labyrinthloafer your idea about lying about their health is very, very extreme, and almost certainly will fail.
Going to such extreme lengths to stop your child from having an education does not reasonable.

You've totally misunderstood you great nana, I mean given covid to could say 'theyve got a cough' and self isolate! As if I would like medically to a health professional or school! Jeez, it shows how far out you are that you interpret people this way.

I don't have anxiety, I just think the school plan is utterly stupid and want to swerve all the disruption.

Stop psychanalysing people, might I kindly suggest you speak to your doctor about the fact you assume other people are struggling mentally all the time? They will be able to help you with this.

mean given covid to could say 'theyve got a cough' and self isolate! As if I would like medically to a health professional or school!

That would only buy you two weeks off school, will you then take them in after that? Or do you intend 'to have' covid indefinitely?

I just think the school plan is utterly stupid and want to swerve all the disruption

What disruption? Your kids will go to school, wash their hands alot, socially distance as much as possible and come home again. I fail to see any kind of disruption at any school in the autumn. What do you imagine is going to happen?!

I did not say you were mentally unwell, but it does seem to me like you need some reassurance, the school can do this by listing the special measures they are taking, and helping you to understand that the risks are very small labyrinthloafer

@Friendsoftheearth Genuinely can't decide whether I am more or at your total misinterpretation and over analysis - please remember you know nothing about the people posting - you are simply projecting your issues/fantasies onto strangers.

All I can say, because I never really give details only views, is me and the head are totally honest about where each of us is. I'm lucky because I have a head who is direct so easy to talk to.

Honestly, some people make things up wherever they go.

If you bother to read any of the articles I’ve provided or look at the data you will understand that children have the lowest risk of any other group. They also are the least likely to spread.

Schools are unlikely to make much diffyti transmission rate but other mitigating measures will be put in place to balance out that risk e.g other lockdown easing will halt or reverse or there will be local lockdowns.

You do realise that in other countries e.g Sweden and China children are back at school? What do you think is different about British children?

Of course, it is true that there is an increased possibility that children will transfer the virus to those with whom they have contact. But at primary level those contacts are small and can be controlled. You do get that we can’t lock up our children forever? I wonder what will change your minds as surely you can see from what’s happening in other countries that COVID is not going away and we’ll have to learn to live with it.

In fact one if the problems at the moment is that young probably (a lot of secondary children) are gathering without any controls as they’re not in school. I’m sure we’ve all seen them. In fact, can you be sure your own children won’t be among them? It’s not normal or healthy for kids to accept being housebound and I’d be concerned as a teacher about children or parents who thought this was a desirable way to be.

My Youngest will be back as soon as she’s able (oldest off to university) as will i. I do feel sorry for those children who will be kept at home because of their parents’ anxiety and be disadvantaged academically and socially as a consequence. Some of these disadvantages could have long term consequences esp as poor qualifications and poverty are linked to poor health. There are other problems too such as those to do with mental health but also rising obesity, itself a factor in making people vulnerable to COVID complications.

I’d think v seriously about the impact of individual teens missing months of school and then further weeks on their own and then being expected to reintegrate just before their GCSES. That will be incredibly stressful and many just wouldn’t be able to manage it and switch off from school altogether. We all know how kids treat that one child whose parents think they are ‘special’.

labyrinthloafer I am asking you to outline the disruption you think you will in schools?

** see in schools?

Secondary school teacher here, 9 year old son, Hubby primary teacher. We’re all back obs. We are hoping for a new govt 🤣 one that knows what it’s doing..... failing that, track and trace in place.....