Is anyone not sending their secondary school child back initially?

[lastkisstoo]

I've decided to keep my 15 year old home, probably until the October hols to see what happens.

We are in Scotland. What just happened in the pubs in Aberdeen is exactly what I see happening in schools. Mostly young adults, enclosed space, no social distancing.

My child has asthma, and while not on the list for sheltering I still feel is vulnerable enough that I don't want to see him being used as a guinea pig while the government assess just how big the uptick in cases will be on schools re-opening.

Your safe guarding officer and head may have a different view mosquito any missing child will be of real concern.

There is not a single country in the world that has stopped covid from spreading, not one.

@Friendsoftheearth

There is not a single country in the world that has stopped covid from spreading, not one.

yes there is. There are many countries with none

I don ´t want to postpone going back till there is an end to the pandemic.

I want the extremely clinically vulnerable to be able to postpone going back until there is a coherent set of plans that will make the situation safer, of trying to live with covid.

If the kids go back and there are some unnecessary deaths because we collectively haven got our heads around the issues, then it will be devastating for the individual families concern but it also won´t be great for their schoolmates either.

Think about it.

@Friendsoftheearth

Your safe guarding officer and head may have a different view mosquito any missing child will be of real concern.

you are being very unrealistic. There is a very small amount a school can do about a missing child. It is very common indeed, many per year per school. Thats normal

North Korea has had closed borders for decades, and the population do not travel anywhere and even they have cases.

We can not hide from the virus, we can mitigate, we can design new measures to make things safer, but we can not escape the cold reality - this virus is here to stay (until someone clever from Oxford or elsewhere comes up with the solution!) Our children in the meantime need to learn resilience, they will learn how to effectively deal with risk - and lots and lots of about hand hygiene!

@Friendsoftheearth

just because people want an end to the pandemic

But you can't 'end the pandemic' mosquito it doesn't work like that. The only way to end the pandemic is to roll out a successful vaccine, and that could take years if not decades. Children can not be left without an education until the 'end of the pandemic', because that moment may never come.

We can minimise the spread and the damage.

Do you not understand that deaths and illness amongst parents and grandparents and wider family also affect children?

I don't understand why people think children won't be harmed by covid unless they themselves die of it?

Loss of family income or family home would be far worse for my children than six months more of online schooling.

I know people find it hard but we actually can't pretend to our children this isn't happening, that is doing them a disservice. We'd be better off showing them how a community and a country pulls together.

Vaccine or accepting high deaths are NOT the only options.

mosquito if you work in a school you will be familiar with the procedure that all schools activate when a child goes missing. It is a well trodden path, and is designed to protect children and their families, as I am sure you are aware. And thank goodness for that, because it has been potentially life saving for many, many young children. We have record numbers of removals at the moment for good reason. I am not sure why you are not more concerned about this if you work with children?

Our children in the meantime need to learn resilience

Yes, the new buzzword resilience. Yet you think they can't handle blended learning - so you are the one who thinks they are not resilient. Mine can cope with change for good reasons.

What I see are a lot of adults so unable to cope with any change they want schools to reopen in the face of scientific fact.

they will learn how to effectively deal with risk they can't, because risk to individuals is irrelevant. The risk is to society, and again, there are countries which have eradicated it, which we could also have done. There is no point in you just denying it, it is a fact.

We have record numbers of removals at the moment for good reason

We have record numbers of removals because of the widespread cuts right across all services. This is a sign of societal failure.

labyrinthloafer I perhaps have the benefit of having a brother who is a consultant in ICU looking after covid patients, and they are not worried because the vast majority of cases (there are always a few exceptions) the patients that have died from covid were extremely frail and would have died within the next 6-12 months anyway. That is not to say that this is okay or acceptable, only to highlight that the flu could also be responsible or something similar. Patients that are seriously ill from covid mostly fall into this bracket. Look at the stats - they will tell you everything you need to know.

So if we are in a position of a further outbreak, then the most vulnerable and elderly should shield again, and that way we can avoid the deaths and outcomes you describe.

We have record numbers of removals because of the widespread cuts right across all services. This is a sign of societal failure.

No, that is not accurate. We have record numbers of removals because some families are buckling under the strain. The ones that were just about managing, are no longer managing. My line of work is directly involved with this, and I have to say we have seen an enormous rise. We have to get those children back into school, and do what we can to support the family unit. Not to mention the wellbeing of the child, or there will be many many more, the government is very aware of this growing problem, and so are most schools.

@Friendsoftheearth

labyrinthloafer I perhaps have the benefit of having a brother who is a consultant in ICU looking after covid patients, and they are not worried because the vast majority of cases (there are always a few exceptions) the patients that have died from covid were extremely frail and would have died within the next 6-12 months anyway. That is not to say that this is okay or acceptable, only to highlight that the flu could also be responsible or something similar. Patients that are seriously ill from covid mostly fall into this bracket. Look at the stats - they will tell you everything you need to know.

So if we are in a position of a further outbreak, then the most vulnerable and elderly should shield again, and that way we can avoid the deaths and outcomes you describe.

Do you mean you have a benefit over me? If so that is extremely patronising given you know zilch about what knowledge I may have the benefit of.

There's always an 'I know an ICU consultant who says it's all nothing to worry about' post popping up. Funny so few ICU consultants ever go on public record saying that. Maybe you could ask him to write something publicly to counter all the other ICU consultants who write the opposite?

@Friendsoftheearth

We have record numbers of removals because of the widespread cuts right across all services. This is a sign of societal failure.

No, that is not accurate. We have record numbers of removals because some families are buckling under the strain. The ones that were just about managing, are no longer managing. My line of work is directly involved with this, and I have to say we have seen an enormous rise. We have to get those children back into school, and do what we can to support the family unit. Not to mention the wellbeing of the child, or there will be many many more, the government is very aware of this growing problem, and so are most schools.

It is still a symptom of societal failure.

Kids need to learn resilience because kids can’t cope at home any longer. What?

I'm sick of being told my kids who are fine, if mildly bored, and who 100% can cope with online or blended learning have to go in to full-time school with no social distancing because other kids aren't coping.

It'd be better if mine left more space for anyone who really can't cope because anyone whose kids really aren't coping are going to cope even less well if we have a terrible winter, high deaths and the schools shut again!

None of it makes sense. Full time school with no distancing is stupid given we are maybe going to have a very bad winter.

Wales is not fining parents. That is what England should do.

@Apple1971

It’s a very difficult time for everyone.

As a teacher I would just point out that unfortunately you can’t just remove your child from school - it’s a legal requirement that they go. So if you make that decision you will have to declare you are home schooling and relinquish his place at the school. Just another thing to consider incase you hoped to be able to take him out then send him back later on - it might not be that easy.

I hope All of ours come back but I know many pupils / parents are very anxious also.

It will take a long while for school to be able to deregister a child with plenty of hoop jumping Anyway whilst this is not the option I'm going to take its easy to have two months off just following guidance. First two weeks off school, just inform school you have just landed from Spain. Second two weeks because track and trace have contacted you (must have been exposed when you went for essential medicine as allowed by the govt) so that's four weeks dealt with. Then Mum shows symptoms, has to wait a few days for test which is positive (school guidance is that no proof is required) so another 14 days for child. Then oh surprise Dad gets symptoms that's another 14, so that's 8 weeks then finally kid gets it another 10 days covered. Fwiw I'm not going to do that. If I decide against sending them then I will quite happily go to court.

Totally agree @labyrinthloafer. My kids are fine at home. I don't understand why I can't be given the option of home ed for a term or two to leave more space for others. I'm disabled and it feels sadistic to put people like me in this position.

If I decide against sending them then I will quite happily go to court.

I have to say I'm starting to harden to this myself. I'm so angry that people say I'm anxious, don't care about my kids, don't understand risk - no, it is just a really shit plan for schools and wider society and I think kids and teachers deserve better.

The point of this plan is it is the one plan that involved no extra money whatsoever.

@Friendsoftheearth

labyrinthloafer I perhaps have the benefit of having a brother who is a consultant in ICU looking after covid patients, and they are not worried because the vast majority of cases (there are always a few exceptions) the patients that have died from covid were extremely frail and would have died within the next 6-12 months anyway. That is not to say that this is okay or acceptable, only to highlight that the flu could also be responsible or something similar. Patients that are seriously ill from covid mostly fall into this bracket. Look at the stats - they will tell you everything you need to know.

So if we are in a position of a further outbreak, then the most vulnerable and elderly should shield again, and that way we can avoid the deaths and outcomes you describe.

I'm not worried about ICU or dying. There is however a massive spectrum between not getting covid and dying and all the implications inbetween. Is it that difficult to understand that dying isn't the only worry.

@Beebityboo I'm disabled and it feels sadistic to put people like me in this position.

I agree it is sadistic, as your children will obviously be worried about you too. They would therefore potentially learn more at home.

It is ethically unjustifiable IMO.

Look at the stats - they will tell you everything you need to know.

the stats say 60 000 excess deaths so far this yer. So that is people who would NOT have died in the next 6-12 months, isn't it, becasue they would not be showing up in the stats as excess deaths for the year.

So all those people who WOULD have died in 2020 are not in that figure of 60 000, are they

@Friendsoftheearth

mosquito if you work in a school you will be familiar with the procedure that all schools activate when a child goes missing. It is a well trodden path, and is designed to protect children and their families, as I am sure you are aware. And thank goodness for that, because it has been potentially life saving for many, many young children. We have record numbers of removals at the moment for good reason. I am not sure why you are not more concerned about this if you work with children?

and much of the time, we never hear anything again. Parents move children out of the area or out of the country regularly, without telling anyone. There is nothing that can be done about it. They are not obliged to tell us their plans. We generally assume a child is off roll if we hear nothing for 2 weeks, this happens with thousands and thousands of children every year in the UK.

Some people just don't seem to understand this. We cannot account for every child, that has never and will never happen, and children who simply vanish are in such high numbers that there is no possibility of anyone having enough resources to look for them.

Some people have a very naive view of society if you think a missing child is looked for and found

Look, if you want to keep your dc at home, keep your dc at home. It is completely a matter for you. It is not for me, or anyone else on a forum to make that decision for you.

Certainly in our schools any missing child is followed up with a phone call initially, and then a visit and a possible referral to ss. I am not sure why that isn't happening everywhere but that is definitely the case here.

Welfare checks were also done during lockdown.