Is anyone not sending their secondary school child back initially?

[lastkisstoo]

I've decided to keep my 15 year old home, probably until the October hols to see what happens.

We are in Scotland. What just happened in the pubs in Aberdeen is exactly what I see happening in schools. Mostly young adults, enclosed space, no social distancing.

My child has asthma, and while not on the list for sheltering I still feel is vulnerable enough that I don't want to see him being used as a guinea pig while the government assess just how big the uptick in cases will be on schools re-opening.

We go round and round the same.loop.

I think a few things are unarguable, imo. They are:

• full time secondary with no social distancing will increase spread of the virus, both within the school and also therefore in the community
• the government could if it wished provide hardware etc to facilitate online
• UK schools are especially crowded compared to other European countries

What we are arguing about is, bluntly, more illness and deaths vs more face to face school.

I really feel which side we come down on that says a lot about our society. My children will be affected educationally if we don't do school as normal, but I think psychologically for them that is better than living in a society that ploughs on despite real risk of harm.

This pandemic is awful, but showing our children we can adapt seems healthier than trying to force them to carry on as if it weren't happening.

@Vivana

disorganisedsecretsquirrel

No not all.shop workers get screens. Bit hard to put a screen around someone working on the shop floor

They have distancing and they are not 6 hours per day in a crowded room. UK schools are crowded.

labyrinthloafer

Not even close. Try hundreds of people around you every week. Strangers at that who you dont know
At least in a school you know who they are and how to contact there family. People coming up to toy constantly asking where things are. People being abusive to you. People having poor hygiene.
12 hour shifts. Shall I carry on ?

And no distancing is a thing people forget now. People think it's ok to come up to you and even customers going close to orhwe customers. Have you been in a supermarket lately ?

@Vivana

labyrinthloafer

Not even close. Try hundreds of people around you every week. Strangers at that who you dont know
At least in a school you know who they are and how to contact there family. People coming up to toy constantly asking where things are. People being abusive to you. People having poor hygiene.
12 hour shifts. Shall I carry on ?

Well then you need greater protection too

The answer isn't allowing greater spread in school.

I am not qualified to actually weigh up the risk of catching it from short interactions with many people vs sitting all day with a smaller group of people, but if your work is as you describe, it isn't right. But two wrongs don't make a right, so no social distancing in school isn't right either.

I agree 100% and I to would make any judgement on sending my dd back to school specially as she is vulnerable and was at a Sen school most of her life. But she left school a while a go now.

I wonder what schools will be doing about SD now can anyone give me a example on what there schools plan is ?

Our school's "plan" is that at the start of day the year groups come at five minute gaps and the end of the day they have end times that are five minutes apart from each other.

And that's it.

As has been repeatedly said throughout this thread, there is no social distancing in secondary schools.

Yes, no, none, nada, SD. This is what I don't think lots of people realise. I was speaking over zoom to the community volunteers in my village, they don't have secondary school children. They were horrified when then heard about the reality as they can see how this will affect the R number and have a knock-on affect on our village as a whole.

Before the new readers pile on. I want schools open, I want them open all academic year. Which is why I'm against the current plans. 2000+ people in in unventilated buildings is not going to end well.

Do what you like, no one gives a shit. You don’t care about your kid any more than those of us who are sending ours back. Given how low rates of community transmission are just now and how cautious NS has been I’m comfortable sending mine, they have missed enough and need to br back at school full time

Completely and utterly agree. I'm in Scotland, we had the email about return to school yesterday and mine are all desperate to get back. I have one who is going into S4 and doing Nat 5s next year - she simply can't afford any more time off on the basis that she might come into one of the tiny number of active cases floating around, unaware they have it and not isolating.

That's exactly it Morfin. A lot of the discussion on TV and debates do not address the reality of the situation especially at secondary school, eg the discussion on Jeremy Vine yesterday. They just keep banging on about low risk to kids and teachers. My elderly aunt was horrified when I spelled out the year group so called bubbles and the issue with travelling on public and school transport with students from other schools. An ex colleague (who goes into school as part of her job) assumed all kids would be social distancing! Like many others, I agree with blended learning for secondary. Personally, as a parent, I would be happy to take the risk of a bubble of 30 if my DD was still at primary, although I understand why the primary teachers are worried. I'm not too worried about my daughter catching it, but I'm worried about her passing it on to vulnerable relatives. I can't see how community transmission isn't going to rise. Blended learning would also be a more realistic way of keeping kids in school for longer and being able to shut down smaller bubbles if needed rather than a whole year group.

Also everyone who is not sending your kids not to school - your choice. My choice to disagree with you.

Not sending your kids doesn't make you more clever, or smarter, or more caring, or mean that you love your kids more than the rest of us.

Do you always pitch yourself against things that people haven't said? Must be exhausting.

Has anyone said it does @SockYarn? You seem awfully defensive about it, which is weird as you are not only making your own decision but judging other people's.

Not defensive at all. Just fucked off by the whole situation and pissed off with people fannying around and potentially wrecking their kids' exam prospects by bleating on about "safe" when nothing is ever "safe". This whole situation has just brought it hammering home that so many people are utterly hopeless when it comes to risk evaluation.

OP can do what she likes. As long as she doesn't expect teachers and other staff to bend over backwards to support her child at home when they need to be concentrating on kids who are in school.

Yeah that kind of proved my point.

Just fucked off by the whole situation and pissed off with people fannying around and potentially wrecking their kids' exam prospects by bleating on about "safe" when nothing is ever "safe". This whole situation has just brought it hammering home that so many people are utterly hopeless when it comes to risk evaluation.

This comes across as though really you're just angry people see it differently. They're (I'm) not hopeless at risk evaluation, just weighting the impact of the various risks differently, which produces different answers.

If you're confident you're doing what is right for you, then there's no need to be pissed off about other people viewing things differently.

I do agree with this thing about risk assessment. I do think people are poor at it.

It’s a wonder people ever get in a car when accidents happen all the time. Nothing is safe.

To be frank I suspect a lot of parents on this thread are going to end up with large fines and possibly in jail. If your DC are enrolled in a state school, you have a legal obligation to send them in.

The government have been very clear that the expert advice is that schools are safe. Therefore, all parents must send their DC as not all. They have also been clear that fines and prosecutions will be enforced as normal.

Some heads will go further such as the one at my own school who will be referring parents who play silly buggers with attendance to hospital for anxiety treatment.

*as normal

@CountessFrog

I do agree with this thing about risk assessment. I do think people are poor at it.

It’s a wonder people ever get in a car when accidents happen all the time. Nothing is safe.

This is very limited thinking. With this pandemic, individual risk is not particularly important. We are talking about the risk that covid poses to the whole population, society, social order, and the economy.

Anything that increases or reduces the risk to an individual impacts on us all.

As | said, we should be grateful to the parents who will keep their children away from school in Autumn. It decreases the risk all round.

@sockyarn, it matters very little in the great scheme of things, whether you or I live or die, that is not what this is about. It matters if we prolong the pandemic

@CountessFrog

I do agree with this thing about risk assessment. I do think people are poor at it.

It’s a wonder people ever get in a car when accidents happen all the time. Nothing is safe.

But that is why risk assessments vary, because nothing is safe, and we all have very different situations and tolerances.

People may do mountain climbing in their child free years, then many stop when they have children, because the risk of dying suddenly affects more than just them.

I honestly think you're not understanding humans and the fact they vary! You are not automatically correct, just different.

To be frank I suspect a lot of parents on this thread are going to end up with large fines and possibly in jail

Excellent use of public money putting genuinely concerned parents in jail. There's a fair way to go before that stage.

Maybe that's what you'd like to happen but really, do you think that suggests a sane country??

Just fucked off by the whole situation and pissed off with people fannying around and potentially wrecking their kids' exam prospects by bleating on about "safe" when nothing is ever "safe". This whole situation has just brought it hammering home that so many people are utterly hopeless when it comes to risk evaluation.

My evaluation of risks extends further than the end of my nose. When millions of kids are back mixing on transport, in shops and in classrooms infection rates are going to increase. In school and in our communities. We know this because of the knowledge we now have of how this virus spreads. No one can argue with that as we have the evidence. Crikey we have lived through it! We can take steps to limit the spread and I'm fed up now of continually hearing how we NEED to just get over ourselves. I do want to have to go through local lockdowns and would rather action is taken now to avoid if possible.

That should say don't want to go through local lockdowns