Schools to remain closed until October half term?

[stopcollaborateandlisten]

Lots and lots coming out in the news how schools will finally be re-opening - anyone else think it might get pushed back at the last minute to after the October half term?

They are opening here in Scotland a week tomorrow! So no, they will open in September!

Agree @cantkeepawayforever Also people who have been shielded and are starting to get back to normal life - that is massively needed for their mental health - are basically being told (on Mumsnet) that they should stay home while everyone else gets on with life! This may end up being their only option but at the moment it’s not what people who have been at home for 19 weeks need to hear.

@lovelemoncurd

The children need to go back to school. Coronavirus isn't the only thing that decimates society. It won't be 100% safe. It's never going to be without mass vaccination. It's going to be a case of balancing one risk against another.

It's getting frustrating that people can't see this or even accept that there is no 100% safe option.

While I totally agree, its important that risk is mitigated for staff and children. The going back to school without social distancing or protections is what just not good enough. That is the problem. Everyone wants children back at school. I have children and am a teacher but its the safety issues here that concern me. Its like its just business as usual here in Scotland. Yet, children are required here, over the age of 5 to wear a mask in the supermarket but not in front of their teacher or each other.

LoveLemonCurd,

The frustration for school staff on this site and elsewhere is that we know this.

We know that there is an economic need for restaurants to be open - so they are open, with SD and PPE.

There is a need for supermarkets to be open - so they are, with increased click and collect; restrictions on numbers; 1 way systems,; screens around checkouts.

There is a need for GPs to be open - so they are, with remote phone and video consultations; no waiting rooms; PPE.

There is a need for schools to be open - so they will be, with no SD, no restricted numbers, no remote learning, no screens, and PPE will be forbidden.

It's the denial of effective safety measures, not the decision to further open schools, that is the frustration.

@cantkeepawayforever

LoveLemonCurd,

The frustration for school staff on this site and elsewhere is that we know this.

We know that there is an economic need for restaurants to be open - so they are open, with SD and PPE.

There is a need for supermarkets to be open - so they are, with increased click and collect; restrictions on numbers; 1 way systems,; screens around checkouts.

There is a need for GPs to be open - so they are, with remote phone and video consultations; no waiting rooms; PPE.

There is a need for schools to be open - so they will be, with no SD, no restricted numbers, no remote learning, no screens, and PPE will be forbidden.

It's the denial of effective safety measures, not the decision to further open schools, that is the frustration.

Its what we are facing in Scotland. I couldn't agree more.

@cantkeepawayforever

I still can’t understand why it’s not the norm that the vulnerable groups stay inside and keep safe

II am vulnerable - now, do you want me to keep safe, or to teach 30+ children in school? Because I can do one, or the other, but not both, and if you are saying I should stay at home, then you are saying that those 30+ children shouldn't have a teacher...

Honestly, the 'vulnerable' are not a lot of frail little elderly ladies who are economically inactive, who can safely be pushed out of society without any impact on 'normal people'. We're in amongst you - as teachers, doctors, nurses, supermarket workers, delivery drivers, pharmacists, bankers, factory workers etc etc etc

If you’re truly in the vulnerable category then yes, I mean you too of course. No ones job is more important than their health.

If you chose to go to work and want to do so, then I think that’s your choice. I think the government should put support financially in place to enable the working vulnerable to stay at home if they chose.

I’m not saying it is frail old ladies, but equally it’s not the majority of the population either.

I’m not really sure what side of the fence you’re on - your posts suggests you want to be at work and teach because you’re worried about who would do it if you didn’t. If that’s case then as I said, it should be your choice and if you feel comfortable then fine.

Children NEED to go back to school. OP why do you want our children's education to be F*?
Corona is not the only infectious disease that is floating around. People need to get a grip, we need to accept it and live with it.
(... think about all the selfish twats that are not adhering to social distancing and mask wearing, their freedom should be jeopardised not kids education.)

Is there something magical happening in October that isn't happening in September? I mean what's the difference really.

RedToothBrush
You are talking about one specific school , well I am talking about other specific schools if you prefer.

Accusing someone to talk "crap" because situations are different doesn't make your point terribly valid I am afraid. As opposed to you, I didn't use ONE school to judge all the others

If the schools feel they were justified in their decision, then they have nothing to worry about do they? Don't try to turn it into a teacher bashing thread, nowhere have I attacked an individual teacher or even make it sound like decisions had anything to do with them.

The ones who failed to step up, who failed the children who failed in their roles are the ones who made the poor decisions, didn't plan and didn't act.
Some headteachers refuse to open, full stop. I can't say I agree with them, but at least they clearly made a point and justified their position, not meekly whining "government says so".

Meanwhile, in the private sector, people had to because they wanted to keep their job and keeping the business afloat. And funnily enough, most private schools seem to have done an excellent job too.

Nope. They'll be open. Whether they stay open though...

On the balance of probabilities, the most likely scenario is:

• All schools, bar a tiny number in the most badly affected areas at the start of September, will reopen. We are talking in the dozens rather than anything more significant in numbers.

• There will incidents where year groups are sent home, and individuals schools are closed due to an outbreak at a school. The nearest schools in the same area will stay open. This will be fairly uncommon initally but might increase as we get into late October, early November and the start of the flu season.

• There will be localised re-closures in specific electoral wards, where a particular high level of cases emerges after the start of September. Multiple schools in the same area will be closed as a precaution. This will be very uncommon.

• Closures will be for a couple of weeks at most, in the vast majority of cases.

• Some schools may face multiple enforced closures between September and March.

• We will see some children sent home on the basis of staff shortages and a lack of availability of supply teachers. This will be for other reasons and not directly as the result of a local covid outbreak within the school.

• We are unlucky to see national closures and a full lockdown again, regardless of how things go.

• Other restrictions will be brought in, in an area of high transmission before schools are closed if there is no outbreak connected directly to the school.

• Teachers will be advised not to socialise and risk getting infected outside the school.

• Closures will take people by surprise and there will be loads of people moaning about how unfair it is on MN.

• Parents will take the piss and send in sick children deliberately, resulting in the closure of schools and some very angry parents.

• Some places will be completely fine and will be open as normal throughout. This won't be reported much.

The 90 minute test turnaround sounds great.

They could test people coming into the country.

They could easily test anyone with a cough/raised temperature.

Quickly isolate any testing positive. This will help lower contact with people with covid.

I do feel that some people really don't want schools to open at all though. So much negativity even when good things develop there are the ones that jump straight in with negatives. I think it suits some to stay home forever but really for the most part online/at home school didn't work. If it works for a household (sahm/no need to go out to work/nanny etc) then they always have the choice to keep child home and educate there. It doesn't work for everyone though.

It will be interesting to see how the Scottish situation pans out. I suspect some small localised lock downs (guessing though as we all are).

Schools will reopen, they will have to for lots of reasons...Tory promises, children's mental health, getting parents back to work and so on.

However, it is going to be more problematic than they assume, given that children spread viruses very easily, even if they don't suffer so much themselves. There are going to be any number of staff off/isolating, year group bubbles isolating, high numbers in some schools leading to individual shut-downs.

The idea that we can shut a few pubs/restaurants and therefore trade-off in order to reopen schools is batshit nonsense, pubs aren't going to make any difference....although more shutdowns for them may put an awful lot of them out of business.

I wish those making the decisions would get real for a change...

Can I just address this myth that all teachers were teaching when the R rate was highest.

The answer is we were teaching but to far fewer children. Our school attendance was about 70% two weeks before school closed and then down to nearly 50% a week later.

We were in the classroom but by the time everyone had started to worry there were already far fewer children in school and we had started to disinfect all classrooms after every lesson and some students were choosing to wear masks. This was in March.

@RedToothBrush

- Some places will be completely fine and will be open as normal throughout. This won't be reported much.

Indeed, some just love the bad news and will gleefully share and ignore any positives points. I think people forget how far we have come since the peak of the outbreak.

No

SantaClaritaDiet - And funnily enough, most private schools seem to have done an excellent job too.

Public schools tend to have smaller class sizes, it's one of their benefits, so to return to school you wouldn't necessarily need to double your class room space and double your teaching staff to accommodate bubbles of 15 like most state schools.

I agree that some schools provision (particularly of remote learning) was better than other during lockdown and it was a lottery that I hope we don;t have to live through again. I really can't understand why you are blaming schools for following the Government guidelines when they re-opened in summer term though.

@SantaClaritaDiet

RedToothBrush You are talking about one specific school , well I am talking about other specific schools if you prefer.

Accusing someone to talk "crap" because situations are different doesn't make your point terribly valid I am afraid. As opposed to you, I didn't use ONE school to judge all the others

If the schools feel they were justified in their decision, then they have nothing to worry about do they? Don't try to turn it into a teacher bashing thread, nowhere have I attacked an individual teacher or even make it sound like decisions had anything to do with them.

The ones who failed to step up, who failed the children who failed in their roles are the ones who made the poor decisions, didn't plan and didn't act.
Some headteachers refuse to open, full stop. I can't say I agree with them, but at least they clearly made a point and justified their position, not meekly whining "government says so".

Meanwhile, in the private sector, people had to because they wanted to keep their job and keeping the business afloat. And funnily enough, most private schools seem to have done an excellent job too.

Actually I'm talking about both DS's school and several other schools nearby which I know of who have higher than average key worker and vulnerable kids.

But do crack on telling us all about facts and why heads should have gone against the guidance and put themselves in a position of being personally liable to parents, the local authority and the Health and Saftey Executive if it went tits up.

Your comment about 'facts' was a blanket statement directed towards all schools and implying that they were shit for not having rotas, even though it was something explicitly advised against.

Some heads may have decided to go against that advice but that was at their own risk to do so. And it was only possible if fully supported by all staff - and against the advice the unions were putting out. If just one member of staff said "hey I don't like this, its against what the union are saying and I am not prepared to risk myself or the children" its fair enough and not a lot the head could do. Noting here that teachers may have felt they had a duty to refuse on the grounds of safeguarding, rather than because of how it affected them personally.

Yep, facts.

Not some crappy opinion which you are now trying to backtrack and deny you meant ALL schools when your post makes no fucking sense in terms of 'facts' if you didn't mean all schools to begin with.

think about all the selfish twats that are not adhering to social distancing and mask wearing, their freedom should be jeopardised not kids education

Yep, and those selfish twats will jeopardise school opening by spreading the virus, no matter how much I as a teacher and parent hope that schools will be (safely) open in September. That’s incredibly frustrating.

What will people live on if their sectors close to allow schools to re-open given that the furlough & SEISS are ending in October (if indeed you qualified for those schemes in the first place)? How will they pay mortgages/rent, bills, feed their families - this is the bit that I don't understand.

@Littleposh

*Littleposh Tue 04-Aug-20 13:28:54
Oh good, another thread on utter bollocks. Can't you people who are clearly desperate for schools to remain closed just discuss amongst your own kind on one of the several thousand other threads on this non-subject??

This.... indeed some are really desperate for schools to stay closed

As someone else mention I think they will shut restaurants/pubs/gyms/cinemas before they pushback the opening of schools. They keep saying that kids don’t get his as badly by it and don’t transmit in the same way as adults, I don’t think realistically they can allow schools to stay of any further.

But, I think we will end up with mini lockdowns on a regular basis. But if this helps to keep kids in schools then I think that’s the more important than being able to sit in the pub on a Friday night.

The old 'but private schools managed it' argument is really tedious.

How many private schools have classes of thirty and don't have high numbers of other additional teaching staff?

Answers on a postcard to the government who are significatly over represented by private school attendees who don't understand the reality of state school.

[quote MoreListeningLessChatting]@Littleposh

*Littleposh Tue 04-Aug-20 13:28:54
Oh good, another thread on utter bollocks. Can't you people who are clearly desperate for schools to remain closed just discuss amongst your own kind on one of the several thousand other threads on this non-subject??

This.... indeed some are really desperate for schools to stay closed[/quote]
I'm not desperate for schools to stay closed I just want to be afforded the same Covid secure steps as other workers.. Masks in enclosed spaces for all who can (secondary level) and decent distancing guidelines.

@PilatesPeach

What will people live on if their sectors close to allow schools to re-open given that the furlough & SEISS are ending in October (if indeed you qualified for those schemes in the first place)? How will they pay mortgages/rent, bills, feed their families - this is the bit that I don't understand.

I wonder the same but for the reverse. How will those pay their bills if they can’t go to work because they can’t work.... because schools are closed.

Their company won’t be able to use furlough scheme to pay them either, so will they get ‘let go’?