Schools to remain closed until October half term?

[stopcollaborateandlisten]

Lots and lots coming out in the news how schools will finally be re-opening - anyone else think it might get pushed back at the last minute to after the October half term?

I think they'll open in September and close before half term because the children can't social distance at school so cases will explode

No, they will open, I believe. As I polish my crystal ball.... I believe some may then close. I believe they are likely to close services like hair salons / beauticians / pubs before schools. It is possible that the xmas holiday will get extended.

As PP have said, they will open with fanfare and the government claiming credit, then quietly close locally but apart from the first closure it won't make news. The government will keep saying they are open, even if your school has been closed off and on for weeks. It won't be their problem then, it'll be yours.

@SantaClaritaDiet

RedToothBrush

As you know all about facts, why don't you quote us exactly WHERE the latest spring guidelines stopped schools to reopen to children and where it specifically stated that only 3 year groups had to open full time but others had to remain shut...

I am not backtracking when I state that some school management have been embarrassingly poor, have failed in all their duties and should be embarrassed for the way they treated children and excluding the way they have is not acceptable. They will have to be held accountable at some point. We do know that what will happen is some reshuffling so any complaint will be blamed on "previous" leadership

If you had read the guidance, you would understand that it wasn't written that way round.

The steps that heads were required to follow were:

1. Work out the school's capacity, in terms of physical capacity to accommodate 'bubbles' of a maximum of 15.

1. Work out the capacity in terms of numbers of adults - shielding staff had to remain at home, medically vulnerable were meant to be found jobs that didn't involve coming wthin 2m of childrren (so effectively also couldn't be used unless they volunteered to come in)

1. Allocate capacity in a strict order of priority, must be full time, no part time or rotas allowed for priority years - start with keyworkers' and vulnerable children, then Reception, then Y1, then Y6. Schools were also advised to cater for the maximum who could come in, not the smaller number who initially said they would come in, though that part of the guidance was often flexed.

Initially, no-one from Y2-Y5 could come in except keyworkers' children. That was relaxed after June 15th BUT it relied on there being spare capacity - not just physical but also staffing. Unless you know that there were empty classrooms AND non-shielding / vulnerable staff available, then it is wrong to conclude that a school CHOSE not to open more fully. The school I work in, for example, COULD have been filled with keyworkers' children alone, if all had taken up their entitlement. We did manage to accommodate the priority year groups as well, but only by using every space and every adult. A school with more shielding staff might not have managed that.

@PomegranatePomPom 1% absence sounds brilliant - extremely low for the NHS even by normal standards. But the point with schools is there is almost no wriggle room. There isn’t an option for overtime with TOIL (other than for the very small minority who are PT) and supply costs money. Schools are already operating close to the wire and running a deficit is not sustainable for schools that are already at minimum staffing.with no restructuring options left open. There has been a tiny additional amount of money for cleaning, but that’s it.

Large MATs that are urban-based have leeway in the system due to higher pupil funding and a greater proportion of staff on lower pay grades. They may have the luxury of a TA per class, and possibly even non-teaching leadership roles. In many smaller rural schools, heads teach 50% of the time, there are no TAs and staff might well be older with medical issues. It is not realistic to assume that schools like that could cope with frequent needs for self isolation without disruption.

@Pomegranate. Sorry just read your 1% is Covid/self-isolation specific. However, school specific issues still relevant.

Scottish schools open on the 12th August.

Social distancing is impossible in schools but sanitising and better hand washing facilities are a must!

At least Scotland is starting from a very low base of community transmission - though the cluster of bar-related cases show how quickly a situation can change.

No- what a bizarre and random prediction. What difference would one month make?

Glad this hasn't descended into a "bash the teachers" thread, though I guess the potential exists.

No I think they’ll open in September but extend the October and December holiday by a week or 2 when they will reopen the pubs.

Not this again.

A summary of my thoughts:

No, there won't be a second 'proper' lockdown.

Yes, the schools will go back, and they will stay back.

I was thinking about a previous thread where a poster talked about parents and teachers joining forces. I’m not sure if possible - but could parents be asked to voluntarily contribute to cleaning or volunteer to help with anything that would mean schools more likely to open? I’d gladly give up some time and money. I appreciate not everyone is in a position to do so.

@partystress in simple terms, money would solve many issues?

volunteer to help with anything that would mean schools more likely to open?

I’m not sure the tipping point will be cleaning etc What it will boil down to is most likely a lack of staffing. If the teacher is off ill or self isolating and there is no adult body to be in front of that class, no supply teachers are available/willing to come in-then someone with a DBS needs to be in front of them.

Yes, the schools will go back, and they will stay back.

I think it depends what you mean by 'stay back'. You could say, for example, that England has stayed out of lockdown ... but that it may not feel like that in Leicester or Stockport.

@Barbie222

As PP have said, they will open with fanfare and the government claiming credit, then quietly close locally but apart from the first closure it won't make news. The government will keep saying they are open, even if your school has been closed off and on for weeks. It won't be their problem then, it'll be yours.

I can see this being exactly what will happen!

does anyone know if there is a likelihood that teachers could strike?
They could. I don’t think it’s likely because the weight of public opinion would be against them. What I do think is likely is that individual teachers will find reasons to avoid going to work. Some will call in sick with anxiety and stress or whatever other health condition they can reasonably claim prevents them from working. Others will take loans, live on their savings or their partner’s income, and just quit. Others will take early retirement. A lot of teachers are already unhappy in their jobs and this is just the push they need to get out. The first sign of a sniffle and they’ll self isolate. Imo there will be a significant staff shortage. Supply teachers won’t solve the problem either, because nobody is dumb enough to go into a class where the teacher has gone off sick with Covid.

Bringing whole classes of children together after summer holidays of individuals travelling here there and everywhere doesn't take much figuring out what will happen.
Those who are too scared to leave the house as their children have weak immune systems/ health conditions are going to be forced to send them into a room of kids who have been to the beach at one of part of the country, or a Zoo at another part of the country or a holiday abroad. We've spent months keeping our kids safe and protecting them from shitvid 19 and I fear it will all be in vain.

Legomaus.

I know lots of teachers will be doing what you say.

I’ll be suprised if schools have full staff in the first week of term.

And yet, if the government did this properly with Nightingale Schools, cleaning budgets and SD, none of this might happen

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

And yet, if the government did this properly with Nightingale Schools, cleaning budgets and SD, none of this might happen

Exactly. If all those who demand 'schools must open' directed all their energy to lobbying the Government and other authorities that 'schools must open SAFELY', then we genuinely could achieve sustainable, predictable education for all.

Read Alasdair Munro on Twitter - releasing lots of data - another poster share on another post. Lots of positive news concerning children and teachers

Of course there are teachers in school too - however data from Sweden Flag of Sweden where schools have stayed open, shows that Teachers have not been any more likely to get infected than other professions (taxi drivers 5x risk)

Oh in case anyone doesn't know who he is:

'Paediatric Registrar | Clinical Research Fellow Paediatric Infectious diseases
@southamptonCRF
|
@DFTBubbles
#COVID19 evidence review lead | Husband and dad'

Not all Sweden's schools were open.

Numbers per class are much, much smaller.

Many parents withdrew their children anyway.

NOBODY has successfully opened schools with 30+ per class, no SD, no masks as England are planning to, especially not with daily new infections still in the high hundreds [probably higher by September, looking at the graphs].