76% infection rate in children at summer camp

[Lua]

www.nytimes.com/2020/07/31/health/coronavirus-children-camp.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

A very thought provoking read, thank you for posting.

So that's depressing. Kids are known to get out in households, because overnight they catch it, but nevertheless the incidence is higher than you would expect for a median age of 12 from previous studies. Yeah singing / shouting, but surely that's every school break.

Yeah, and summer camp does not involving coming and going in packed buses every day...

Cleaning and disinfection of communal areas were enhanced; the camp required physical distancing outside cabins, and it staggered the use of communal spaces.

Sounds like the measures suggested for schools...

@Lua

Yeah, and summer camp does not involving coming and going in packed buses every day...

But it does involve sleeping together in the same room.

@WrongKindOfFace - Not sure sleeping in the same rooms at a distance and within small groups that are isolated from anyone elae is any more dangerous than shoving 30 kids in a classroom after a bus ride with another other 30 unrelated kids?

So, after the kids spread it around at school, their vulnerable grand parents will pick them up until their parents finish work.

I can understand opening schools when the virus is under control. If we keep it down in the UK until September, then maybe.

But the USA? Are they mad over there?

Sleeping in a room with someone is effective at spread, household transmission has as always been high. The thing that concerns me is how all / almost all the groups got it from presumably a small number of seed cases. It would be interesting for an epidemiologist to confirm from the (DNA? RNA? whatever they test) the number of seed cases and spread between cabins / from camp counsellors (teenagers) to kids or also from young kids to other kids.

Indeed, it would be a nifty study. I wonder if we are indeed to re-start high schools if anyone is ready to collect samples for documenting the consequences.

It would have to be RNA samples

I agree but expect it's the singing. Some choirs they all got it.
Did worry me that someone was suggesti g wbikst part of the year wash hands the rest would all sing!!!
Might as well all lick hands then. As dirty hands vs close together all singing.
I guess a lot of families sing at home too and some religious families may sing hymns? When they meet up.

Also with schools dont they often have wet play so stuck in possibly all day.

"The campers stayed overnight in cabins, with an average of 15 occupants in each."

"Singing and cheering may have helped spread the virus."

"///did not open windows and doors to increase air circulation in buildings. The campers stayed overnight in cabins, with an average of 15 occupants in each.

Many camp activities — which took place indoors as well as outdoors — included “vigorous singing and cheering,” which can enhance spread of the virus, the report said."

It's hardly surprising lots got the virus then is it. The longest serving staff worst affected, probably passing it around...

This is a bit more concerning

"Classes in the first affected school had more than 30 students. Israel’s secondary school classes are crowded (average: 29 students in public schools) compared with the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) average (23 students)"

They did use air con though but still...www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.29.2001352#html_fulltext

I expect kids do a lot of shouting which would be similar to singing and they talk a lot.
Also it seems maybe people are spreaders or not and obviously the superspreaders.
So more people with covid more superspreaders.
Most kids in a school or classroom more infected more superspreaders.

Do people mouth breath doing some activities so eg singing vs maybe running which they xould breath through nose .
Talking etc. Maybe nose breathing doesnt get it in the air as much. I saw in chi a when the kids have masks off they cant talk at lunchtime.
And that probably reflects on a lot of differences in schools and homes. Some people are singers and chatterers. Some classes are more discussions and others are just teacher talking.
Hairdressers are always talking. Call centres are talking but some other offices people just sit at computers. Also i guess very young kids dont really talk and preschool dont talk to the same person for long.

Interesting. Do note that article:

Is about one camp!

76% of the people tested (a bit more than half were tested - likely those not tested didn’t because they didn’t feel the need - not poorly). So it’s not 76% of the whole camp infected.

Do we know if many of the children were actually ill with it? Could be one way to increase herd immunity - put all healthy children with no underlying health conditions in a camp for a few weeks with a couple of ‘super spreaders’! A bit like the chicken pox parties that parents had in the sixties and seventies.

The article says most of them had symptoms but mild. As we don't know about long-term effects of this disease even in mild cases, that doesn't sound like a good idea @hellsbells99. You can vaccinate children against chickenpox now and it is thought to also prevent shingles; much better option than a chickenpox party.

Not just the US. This happened in the far more cautious Canada and included child to adult transmission:

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/boucherville-cases-day-camp-1.5666352

This is why I'm not running my holiday art club over Summer. I have offered very small (up to 6 kids) garden classes instead which I have a waiting list for as I have over 100 families that normally come along. I can have up to 50 children and 8 staff members per day at art camp here in London on a normal summer. I just don't understand how day camps can operate almost as usual round here with "running to covid guidelines". I couldn't run my regular camp to covid guidelines , I couldn't have over 100 families mixing each week as not everyone can commit to a whole week and parents need cover on different days. Plus you are very reliant on parents being totally honest with you about their childs and families health. I don't believe temperature checks are a very reliable indicator either as carriers can be asymptomatic.

So I have been running my garden camps for a couple of weeks now. It's a lot of work as after each session everything is cleaned and sterilised, children have their own art equipment in bags, individual supplies, water pots, paints etc. Its also meant no messy art , no group pieces, children spaced apart etc, frequent hand washing and use of hand sanitizer. I don't charge for cancellation due to illness as I believe this is the best way for honest communication between myself and parents.

Yes i did think that about the camps and i think
If it had been a flu that didnt affect dc much
No long term effects
No pimms-ts or whatever
Immunity

It might have been an idea. But also it takes several weeks to move through so they would have to be away maybe 5+ weeks otherwise they all catch it and spread it to the adults. Maybe they could allow them home once theyve had it and test negative. Then they all go happily to school. The covid camp adults could be ones who have already had it.

I do suspect this is gov thinking a bit at least that kids and parents are lowish risk.
I personally wonder as with say Leicester having schools shut that was driven by the schools.

The more people in a household the less a 14d quarantine will completely help as surely there is still a possibility you catch it from someone further down the line. Which i also see with schools and workplaces. Especially where they arent going to immediately shut a bubble.
Child A has it goes to school.
Sent home positive and class carries on.
Children B and maybe C catch it asymptomatically and you only realise there is an issue when eventually you hit someone with symptoms.
With high asymptomatic and 1/4 false negative it is very likely to become an outbreak. Which then spreads home and via siblings to other bubbles.

I just don't understand how day camps can operate almost as usual round here with "running to covid guidelines".

You're not the only one. Round here there are several who seem to have made very few changes, i'm not sure how they're adhering to the guidelines. We couldn't open our usual holiday club as it just wasn't viable with all the changes we would have had to implement.