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Covid

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Original poster

Should we treat covid like flu now and just get on with life?

562 replies

947EliseChalotte · 30/07/2020 19:48

Is it time to accept covid as another flu and just get on with life and back to normality. The whole point of lockdown was to flatten the curve.

OP posts:
My0My · 02/08/2020 00:01

It will because we recognise it as more important than anything else. Whether it should be is worthy of debate. The silent majority could be dying of a whole host of things in the future but Covid gets the headlines. So we won’t take much notice of the price being paid by others.

blowyernose · 02/08/2020 00:12

It is more deadly than flu and there's no vaccine though.
However I think we should deal with it along with Cancer patients and give others medical treatment like normal. But let not get complacent with COVID. It's worse than flu.

Derbygerbil · 02/08/2020 00:19

Don't you understand that covid will take up every iota of resources if it isn't kept under control?

Indeed, if your primary concern is non-Covid illness and the availability of treatment, the absolute worst possible thing we could do is go back completely to normal. Only a minority will need hospital treatment, but that’s a vast number out of the 50,000,000 or so in the U.K. that haven’t yet been infected.

Derbygerbil · 02/08/2020 00:22

However I think we should deal with it along with Cancer patients and give others medical treatment like normal.

We definitely should, but we can only do that if we have capacity. A free-for-all where we go back completely to normal would destroy that capacity.

IceCreamSummer20 · 02/08/2020 00:30

The government and media have not done a good job educating people, if OP you believe this. You don’t have a good understanding at all. What you are saying is not possible. It’s not a debate.

Letting everything just go back to normal isn’t possible. There is no normal until there is a vaccine.

We could go for limited or zero covid19. That is the closest we will get to being normal in all other areas of life - cancer treatment, schools, business. If we go for that, it is more short term pain, even more lockdowns for a while and test and trace made really good - but greater long term gain. It is possible.

Jihhery · 02/08/2020 00:37

It will because we recognise it as more important than anything else

Doctors don't work that way. Especially in the UK where we have such a high covid death toll partly because the NHS wasn't interested in covid patients unless they were blue. The point is, covid sometimes causes people to be incredibly sick and they will need treatment urgently. What exactly would you like HCPs to do when this is happening? Say "Sorry covid patient, we've reached our threshold for treating covid patients, you'll have to go quietly"? Seriously, what are the options? Bearing in mind patients needing non urgent ops and chemo aren't safe to have those treatments if we stop doing all we can to squash the virus?

Please answer because people with your viewpoint rarely do and I don't know what you're thinking.

IceCreamSummer20 · 02/08/2020 00:40

Agree @Jihhery the recent excess mortality data for England - experts say that this is partly because people were treated so late for Covid19 here. I did not realize this and it is quite shocking. It did look as if all was on hold for patients with COVID-19 but this clearly wasn’t the case.

TheLegendOfZelda · 02/08/2020 06:43

Almost the whole NHS was put on hold for covid. It ended up in carehomes as hospitals were emptied. Many doctors and nurses were left with pretty much nothing to do, right down to GP surgeries as people stopped going. I would imagine the high excess death rate is also connected to that.

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 02/08/2020 08:11

@Jihhery

It will because we recognise it as more important than anything else

Doctors don't work that way. Especially in the UK where we have such a high covid death toll partly because the NHS wasn't interested in covid patients unless they were blue. The point is, covid sometimes causes people to be incredibly sick and they will need treatment urgently. What exactly would you like HCPs to do when this is happening? Say "Sorry covid patient, we've reached our threshold for treating covid patients, you'll have to go quietly"? Seriously, what are the options? Bearing in mind patients needing non urgent ops and chemo aren't safe to have those treatments if we stop doing all we can to squash the virus?

Please answer because people with your viewpoint rarely do and I don't know what you're thinking.

No one is going to answer you. They never engage with this question.
Derbygerbil · 02/08/2020 08:14

Almost the whole NHS was put on hold for covid. It ended up in carehomes as hospitals were emptied. Many doctors and nurses were left with pretty much nothing to do, right down to GP surgeries as people stopped going. I would imagine the high excess death rate is also connected to that.

And that appears to have been an overreaction, at least in some parts of the country that were “behind the curve”, as lockdown quashed infection growth rates.

@TheLegendOfZelda

You appear to be advocating for the NHS to go on hold again, only for that capacity to be fully used this time..... If we go back completely to normal as you appear to be wanting, the remaining 90% or so that haven’t yet been infected will get their chance, and then by sticking firmly with normality as infections rise, we’ll get to see that capacity used this time around, and then surpassed.

Derbygerbil · 02/08/2020 08:18

We need to control Covid spread as much for non-Covid illness as for Covid. The idea that we’d be able to treat non-Covid illness better by ignoring Covid is non-sensical.

Kazzyhoward · 02/08/2020 08:25

It did look as if all was on hold for patients with COVID-19 but this clearly wasn’t the case.

It was on hold for everyone. If you had covid, they wouldn't send an ambulance until you turned blue. If you didn't have covid, everything else was closed anyway.

My OH couldn't contact his oncology dept until May (phone calls were redirected to a call handling system and we went in person to find all doors locked, shutters down and all in darkness). During the first couple of weeks of lockdown our GP surgery was closed and the phone message just said to ring 111.

Kazzyhoward · 02/08/2020 08:30

However I think we should deal with it along with Cancer patients and give others medical treatment like normal.

How can you when large numbers of staff are off sick, have died or are self isolating/quarantining?

How can you when you need to social distance the hospitals - they're often cramped, especially waiting rooms etc. My OH has regular infusions for his cancer. There's usually about 10 people in a tiny room, all within touching distance, all there for a few hours. To maintain 2 metres, you could probably fit 3 people in the room. If you need tp split them it would take 3-4 rooms and then you need more staff, more equipment etc.

Hospitals, GP surgeries etc aren't set up for social distancing, so we can't have normality.

TheLegendOfZelda · 02/08/2020 08:40

@Derbygerbil

Almost the whole NHS was put on hold for covid. It ended up in carehomes as hospitals were emptied. Many doctors and nurses were left with pretty much nothing to do, right down to GP surgeries as people stopped going. I would imagine the high excess death rate is also connected to that.

And that appears to have been an overreaction, at least in some parts of the country that were “behind the curve”, as lockdown quashed infection growth rates.

@TheLegendOfZelda

You appear to be advocating for the NHS to go on hold again, only for that capacity to be fully used this time..... If we go back completely to normal as you appear to be wanting, the remaining 90% or so that haven’t yet been infected will get their chance, and then by sticking firmly with normality as infections rise, we’ll get to see that capacity used this time around, and then surpassed.

I've always wanted a separation out of care, much as eventually happened with GPs. You can only do that effectively if you rigorously test. Instead we gave our testing contract to Tory chums, so what can you do? I actually wanted us to be Denmark, but by mid March latest we had set our course. Now the best we can do is Sweden plus (improve carehome provision). It's about managing what is inevitable - the widespread infection of covid through most of the UK. Totally fucking the economy whilst also totally fucking up lockdown is our unique UK take on covid. My views are always only based on a clear eyed view of the actual reality of our situation. I've kind of given up on people though - this mass hysteria event appears to need to be lived through til all is in ruins.
Kitcat122 · 02/08/2020 08:50

Yes when I was ill with Covid and couldn't breath very well the GP surgery said they were not dealing with Covid symptoms ring 111. 111 took approx 2 hours on hold and they were telling people you can talk so you are not breathless enough for medical attention. When you get to the stage where you can only say a few words then contact us again. It was horrendous. This is why so many people died.

Derbygerbil · 02/08/2020 08:55

@TheLegendOfZelda

Apologies, I had misunderstood your views...

Oblomov20 · 02/08/2020 08:58

I agree with OP.
We just need to get on with it.

SengaStrawberry · 02/08/2020 09:02

We can’t really just get on with it or numbers will become uncontrollable again

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 02/08/2020 09:07

@Oblomov20

I agree with OP. We just need to get on with it.
Get on with what exactly?

If half the population gets Covid over the next six months, the symptomatic half are off work for at least a week, their families are off work for a fortnight, and 1% get sick enough to need HDU or ICU treatment what impact do you think there will be on normal life, the economy, the NHS?

IceCreamSummer20 · 02/08/2020 09:08

@Kitcat122

Yes when I was ill with Covid and couldn't breath very well the GP surgery said they were not dealing with Covid symptoms ring 111. 111 took approx 2 hours on hold and they were telling people you can talk so you are not breathless enough for medical attention. When you get to the stage where you can only say a few words then contact us again. It was horrendous. This is why so many people died.
Sorry that sounds awful. That is shameful.
IceCreamSummer20 · 02/08/2020 09:10

I actually wanted us to be Denmark, but by mid March latest we had set our course. Me too. We could have been. We still could be going for zero covid19 - this is a good strategy.

TheLegendOfZelda · 02/08/2020 09:14

@IceCreamSummer20

I actually wanted us to be Denmark, but by mid March latest we had set our course. Me too. We could have been. We still could be going for zero covid19 - this is a good strategy.
Too late for that from mid March (my personal opinion) We could only achieve that now with a complete total lockdown but the associated costs, not just financial, far outweigh the benefits It's a lovely thought but we missed that moment a long time ago. On the upside, it would have made life very hard in other ways. How to accept any risk at all from then on?
FiveToFour · 02/08/2020 09:28

If half the population gets Covid over the next six months, the symptomatic half are off work for at least a week, their families are off work for a fortnight, and 1% get sick enough to need HDU or ICU treatment what impact do you think there will be on normal life, the economy, the NHS?

Yes,this. And you can't assume that 14 days quarantine would be the maximum effect on one family.
Some of those symptomatic people will need longer off work,and some will be off longterm due to the longer term effects,which we still don't know much about.( A family member of a friend,medical job,had Covid early on - still not able to work.She can do short bursts of activity as long as she can sleep in between...Confused)
If by "just get on with it" you mean the new normal,lots of cleaning and handwashing with stringent social distancing and people accepting that meeting up in the way we used to just isn't possible,then fine.

Kitcat122 · 02/08/2020 09:29

@IceCreamSummer20 thanks. Luckily I didn't deteriorate but there must be so many people who did forewhich it must have been too late.

FiveToFour · 02/08/2020 09:30

Denmark is culturally different from the UK,I don't think its a valid comparison.