London Weighting, would you pay it back to work from home?

[Jenasaurus]

Just been listening to LBC and they were discussing commuters who normally work in the city and are paid London weighting for doing so paying it back if they no longer work in the city but from home

I can see the logic as the expenses incurred would no longer be valid but if you are one of those affected would you be happy to do so or prefer to go back into the office to work.

@joan04 do you think your job is safe ? I work for a big finance company who was starting to do this but all admin staff are needed as we all have huge teams !!!! Maybe if will change in a few years who knows but my company has said they will look into more flexibility wfh but we don't work full time wfh as it will not work for them

For the time being I think it is safe but that's only because I know UK law through the CIPD, it won't be long until people outside of the UK start studying and doing the CIPD purely to land a remote job for a UK company. We have seen this with IT and developer jobs in India for example.

I would say creative jobs and those that are 'Revenue generator' roles are fine as they are usually skilled - it's why many agencies are based in London for example. Those that sit on the 'Cost centre' side of the business such as admin, finance, HR (eventually), etc will be outsourced.

It's really sad and a real worry if you are one of those like me that doesn't have that kind of creative talent or extroversion that gets those kind of roles.

@joan04 a magic circle law firm relocated services like HR & IT to Belfast a few yrs ago. Why do you think it wasn't India or Romania?

Most law firms, investment banks, etc will want their staff in for some part of the week.

[quote gonshite]@joan04 a magic circle law firm relocated services like HR & IT to Belfast a few yrs ago. Why do you think it wasn't India or Romania?

Most law firms, investment banks, etc will want their staff in for some part of the week. [/quote]
I agree with this it would not work , my team are money makers and constantly need me on call constantly we have clients in and they would have to outsource around 300 admin plus more

Rise in homeworking does not equal rise in outsourcing abroad. A lot of companies that use outsourced service centres were in big trouble when India went on sudden lockdown. Staff gone with no warning and big problems that you are not hearing much about with some areas of data security because of it as well as day to day job resource. Onshoring not offshoring is likely to become a new focus for strategy as a result.

@time4anothername

Rise in homeworking does not equal rise in outsourcing abroad. A lot of companies that use outsourced service centres were in big trouble when India went on sudden lockdown. Staff gone with no warning and big problems that you are not hearing much about with some areas of data security because of it as well as day to day job resource. Onshoring not offshoring is likely to become a new focus for strategy as a result.

But that's a totally different thing - that's outsourcing in the sense of moving whole offices (e.g. call centres) abroad. That's not the same as recruiting from abroad to fill a specific job which is then done by that person working from home in the same way as their British counterpart would.

Yes, it’s 5k so not even 3k after tax, and travel costs me 6.5k plus 2.5hrs a day. I’d be very very happy to give it up to be better off to the tune of hundreds a month and to effectively be given a full working day back in terms of time.

Most law firms, investment banks, etc will want their staff in for some part of the week.

Yes of course, I didn't mean every job would go abroad and many companies/industries would still need people based here.

I was just commenting on what I am experiencing in my industry and from what I've heard from various HR colleagues based elsewhere.

If the cost of commuting was more than the amount gained by LW I suppose it would make sense. I've never lived or worked in London though- I assumed the LW was to reflect the higher general cost of living and not just commuting costs?

It's strange to see middle class office workers suddenly worried that their jobs could be at risk of outsourcing. The coming 18 months or so I doubt are going to be good for many, but it does look like groups traditionally believed to be less vulnerable to job loss and income reduction may well be far less safe than assumed.

You might see your London weighting swallowed in a season ticket but lose the London weighting and you also lose pension contributions.

Because WF office is still optional at my firm all (and I do mean all) the PAs are WFH full time.

If I were them I'd be very worried about that. Why not get PAs from Indonesia in that case? (similar time zone to me)

One thing about travel costs is they will have to go up &/or see reduced services.

London weighting never equates to the extra it actually costs to live in London or the train fees plus time spent commuting if you live in the boarders.

So yes, would give it up.

@Lostatsea1988

You might see your London weighting swallowed in a season ticket but lose the London weighting and you also lose pension contributions.

Because WF office is still optional at my firm all (and I do mean all) the PAs are WFH full time.

If I were them I'd be very worried about that. Why not get PAs from Indonesia in that case? (similar time zone to me)

I am a pa and it would not work from home i need to be able to talk to my team straight away and we are not allowed to wfh permantely

@gonshite

Tbh I think it's quite industry/job specific. Lots of family & friends wfh the majority of the time including myself before Covid. Those roles could have been outsourced before but they haven't been. Our payroll is outsourced as it was in my previous company but never abroad.

Lots of UK payrolls are already outsourced overseas. I have worked with several where the entire function is done in the US, others where it's Poland.

There is a huge amount more outsourcing to come - especially in eastern Europe.

@Hingeandbracket I didn't state functions were ever not outsourced overseas. I simply said I know places that outsource it already & in theory could have used a company abroad but they chose not too.

I name changed

I would be willing to lose my London weighting going forward - it didn’t Actually cover my travel costs so I’d still be better off.

[quote roary15]@Hingeandbracket I didn't state functions were ever not outsourced overseas. I simply said I know places that outsource it already & in theory could have used a company abroad but they chose not too. [/quote]
I never said you did, just adding my experiences.

I don't know how possible it will be after Brexit transition ends, but perhaps we'll see people moving to Eastern Europe. If jobs can be outsourced there. The cost of living including housing is cheaper.

@SheepandCow

I don't know how possible it will be after Brexit transition ends, but perhaps we'll see people moving to Eastern Europe. If jobs can be outsourced there. The cost of living including housing is cheaper.

Eastern Europe is full of people who speak excellent English and are highly numerate and well educated - no-one will from here will be moving here (except maybe people going home). Our work will be getting done there, cheaper and at least as well.

@Hingeandbracket why would no one who lived in England emigrate to Romania?

@time4anothername

Rise in homeworking does not equal rise in outsourcing abroad. A lot of companies that use outsourced service centres were in big trouble when India went on sudden lockdown. Staff gone with no warning and big problems that you are not hearing much about with some areas of data security because of it as well as day to day job resource. Onshoring not offshoring is likely to become a new focus for strategy as a result.

This

The way the world locked down meant many companies were caught out when parts of their business was elsewhere and they had no back up.

It's not just as simple as hiring someone in another country. If they're contracting yes, but as a perm employee you need a registered company in that country, file tax returns, have HR support (this can definitely be supported by HR UK with good EMEA knowledge).

@joan04

The FD at the company where I work is already making plans for this. The company is preparing for a raft of redundancies (I work in HR) and we are looking at utilising the break clause on our Central London building so we can all permanently work from home.

The long term strategy will be to replace those roles by not just recruiting from areas in the UK where wages are lower but also recruiting from Poland, Romania and India as remote working has been successful so there is no barrier on where people can work. Ironically Brexit will make it easier from a tax point of view. There are tons or job boards and recruitment agencies in these countries and they are gearing up for it in a big way in Eastern Europe. For example we are looking at hiring an accountant with a salary of 20-25k whereas if we were to recruit them in London we'd be looking at around the 60k mark with employers NI contributions on top of that.

Am I the only one to find this quite distasteful? In times of national crisis, with millions of UK citizens losing their jobs?

@anonm Almost no-one currently doing a job here could afford to live on a Romanian wage. The model only works if it’s cheaper. Aside from language and other issues that is.