School re-opening under threat

[jomartin281271]

Headline in the London Evening Standard today that this new surge could threaten re-opening of schools. I'm not surprised. The government know that it's not safe to open schools under their current guidance. Cramming children, teachers and admin staff into those tiny spaces could cause a catastrophe. I feel sorry for teachers. Most of them are really committed to the job and their lives are being put at risk. Scary times.
www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-second-wave-schools-september-a4511516.html

Orangeblossom,

To be fair, Scotland has been so successful in driving down their community infection and death rates, through a cautious approach and an obviously 'zero Covid' strategy, it's not such a risky approach for them.

I would also have faith that they would reverse the decision promptly if needed.

@nellodee

You (and they) can go back if the household member with symptoms tests negative I think...

[[https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing-and-tracing/what-your-test-result-means/
www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/testing-and-tracing/what-your-test-result-means/]]

You do not need to self-isolate if your test is negative, as long as:
• everyone you live with who has symptoms tests negative
• everyone in your support bubble who has symptoms tests negative
• you were not told to self-isolate for 14 days by NHS Test and Trace – if you were, see what to do if you've been told you've been in contact with someone who has coronaviruss_
• you feel well – if you feel unwell, stay at home until you’re feeling better

I can't remember if I posted on this thread or another, but our department has 5/8 teachers with children in nursery or primary, the knock on effect on our absence for our kids having a cough/temp and waiting for tests, etc is going to be mayhem.

Sorry that posted too late.
Anyway, I think I will have to respectfully disagree with the majority of posters here.
We’re all entitled to our opinions of course and everyone has good reasons for their views.

Just to clarify , I don’t catastrophise especially in front of dd and we are extremely resilient as a family, we’ve been through far worse than this including her seeing me be throttled and nearly die.

So please don’t suggest we / she is not resilient.

Mental health issues are not due to not being resilient.

I agree with all your recommendations except with ft education.

I agree with full time education - just not full time in school.

Schools are unbelievably crowded places. Unless numbers are reduced, regardless of what other figleaves are put in place, close physical and air contact is absolutely inevitable, and so infections will spread rapidly.

I can't remember if I posted on this thread or another, but our department has 5/8 teachers with children in nursery or primary, the knock on effect on our absence for our kids having a cough/temp and waiting for tests, etc is going to be mayhem.

I doubt your department / school will be alone in experiencing this disruption. It's going to be like the Hokey Cokey. One staff in, 1 staff out, in out in out Covid symptoms all about. Trying to find humour, as the situation is a shitshow

I am so confused, because this page says:

If your test is negative, you must keep self-isolating for the rest of the 14 days.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/self-isolation-and-treatment/how-long-to-self-isolate/

Can Yes true, I should have said I want full time education in school.

I don’t think all dc will get it otherwise and gaps will get wider. Plus it’s very hard to sort out cc issues, including for teachers.

I don't know if you could calculate it @nellodee, so many teachers come in to work usually with coughs and colds and running temperatures. Schools will need to reverse the pressure that's normally on to be in unless you just cannot move

[quote nellodee]I am so confused, because this page says:

If your test is negative, you must keep self-isolating for the rest of the 14 days.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/self-isolation-and-treatment/how-long-to-self-isolate/[/quote]
That's if you are isolating due to a household member having symptoms or from test and trace contact.

@tootyfruitypickle I agree with you, my DS has suffered incredibly being an only child throughout this. His confidence has gone downhill so much that he wouldn't even play on the park the other day, he was too shy because of all the other children there. He's never been like this before. He's been very angry at home as well.

I'm a natural optimist and I'm never all doom and gloom in front of him but having barely any contact with peers his own age since March has affected him. This shouldn't be dismissed as not being "resilient" enough. We're not telling adults who have suffered during this time to just be "resilient."

1 of ours have said (primary):
Year group bubbles - so 60+
Hand washing
Seperate 'drop off' and pick up points - which all mean multiple 'bubbles' clash at the gates anyway...

They put this on the letter ;

''There will still be a big emphasis on handwashing, hand sanitising and social distancing
whenever this is possible. We trust you will reinforce this at home too. Children will be
placed in ‘year group bubbles’ which will be kept apart from other bubbles, for example at
playtime and lunchtime . In order to get all pupils back to school, the social distancing in
classrooms will be reduced (desks will be put back, but children will face the front and be
socially distanced from staff) and we will ensure that adequate ventilation and outdoor
learning takes place whenever we can. ''

They went on to say about isolating if symptoms, to stay at home if signs of cold etc. Staggered lunch times within the year group bubbles.

As full-time, undisrupted education in school is not going to be available - or will only be available to a lucky few - are you saying you would prefer ad-hoc, unplanned bubble and school closures due to staff sickness, Covid outbreaks or local lockdowns due to community spikes, to a planned delivery of blended learning that mixes part-time school attendance with part time home schooling?

Gaps will become wider in the 'open full time, close randomly and hope for the best' plan, because community infection is highest where the most disadvantaged are congregated - you can see it in the communities tha have had increased restrictions so far.

Planned part time in school and part time high quality remote learning for all, with provision of laptops to the most disadvantaged (or even a specific socially distanced self-study facility within or outside the school for those children) would, IMO, close the gaps more successfully.

Schools are unbelievably crowded places. Unless numbers are reduced, regardless of what other figleaves are put in place, close physical and air contact is absolutely inevitable, and so infections will spread rapidly.

My eldest daughter's school had an offer from the parish council to use the village hall - a very short walk from the school. My understanding is that the Department for Education have a blanket policy that this is not allowed - why?

I appreciate that some children need to return to school. However, children who have been shielding are being forced back I to school in exactly the same way as all other children with no additional measures to ensure their safety. Shielding families need to be given a choice.

If your test is negative, you must keep self-isolating for the rest of the 14 days.

Only if you have been in contact with someone who tests positive. If they test negative, not positive, you are free to go.

One school we use had one case with one parent the whole time. It wasn’t a matter of dealing with it in school bubbles, there was pretty much nothing to deal with.

In the other school they used SD but the teens did not distance at all at lunch. Still no outbreaks.

I’d go for PPE and other changes.

ILove,

I think because it would require more staff and new equipment, which would cost money. No adaptations requiring additional spending can be made.

(Numerically, also, the number of spaces required to e.g. reduce class sizes to 15 would be extreme, and it is possibly a consideration that you don't necessarily want schools 'fighting' over limited spaces which would cost money to convert and then re-convert back. I think I calculated that the community within which i teach would require 28 extra class-sized spaces just to provide classes of 15 for the primary school aged population, and another 50+ for the secondary)

I think if you had a shielding letter you should have the choice. Some LAs are allowing this.

@Ickabog

I can't remember if I posted on this thread or another, but our department has 5/8 teachers with children in nursery or primary, the knock on effect on our absence for our kids having a cough/temp and waiting for tests, etc is going to be mayhem.

I doubt your department / school will be alone in experiencing this disruption. It's going to be like the Hokey Cokey. One staff in, 1 staff out, in out in out Covid symptoms all about. Trying to find humour, as the situation is a shitshow

Exactly, my point was meant to be that most schools will be massively disrupted, not that we were special. I probably should have made that clearer!

Also the general cost of part time is high. PPE is used in other settings where SD cannot be maintained.

Marsha, one sixth of the families in my class had Covid during the start of lockdown - ie within the first 4 weeks of closure.

Luckily, the numbers of keyworker children in school at that point was miniscule, partly because the local spike meant most parents working in healthcare decided to keep their children at home for safety.

A couple of members of staff and their families were also ill, but again the fact that the school was closed to all except keyworkers meant that the infection did not spread around the classroom and the work needed could be covered.

Returning to anything like that level of community infection with groups of 32+ in school is genuinely scary.

The problem is you as parents won't know if a child or staff member tests positive because guidelines in September are 2 positives in 14 days bursts the bubble. That's possibly understandable in a high school bubble of hundreds but a bubble of 30??? And I love the "We will greatly encourage handwashing WHERE POSSIBLE"

No adaptations requiring additional spending can be made.

Shocking when we have "eat out to help out"

It says "If you live with someone who has symptoms or tested positive"... so if my child has a persistent cough or fever, do I have to self-isolate for 14 days?

Exactly, my point was meant to be that most schools will be massively disrupted, not that we were special. I probably should have made that clearer!

Sorry, perhaps my response wasn't clear enough. I was agreeing with you, but also pointing out that your school wouldn't be the only one experiencing this disruption. Teachers and school staff with children in other schools / childcare settings will need repeated time off for tests, and their absences are going to be a massive problem.