School re-opening under threat

[jomartin281271]

Headline in the London Evening Standard today that this new surge could threaten re-opening of schools. I'm not surprised. The government know that it's not safe to open schools under their current guidance. Cramming children, teachers and admin staff into those tiny spaces could cause a catastrophe. I feel sorry for teachers. Most of them are really committed to the job and their lives are being put at risk. Scary times.
www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-second-wave-schools-september-a4511516.html

@Shitfuckoh

But they could wear visors, or scarves, or anything that would cover there nose and mouth, and if they absolutely cannot they they are exempt from it.

Just as an example.

We have a parent who has said that their child cannot possibly wear a face mask yet we know for a fact that he can and has worn a paintball mask for a prolonged length of time.

@MarshaBradyo It's a difficult one. If I had to pick one, I'd go for blended learning. Part time in school, part time home learning. Difficult one for the teacher though as it would make sense to have a smaller 'bubble' in part time, with the rest of the class in whilst they're homelearning - which would mean the teacher doing work for both which probably isn't possible - unless Oak academy came in to play for the home learning side of things.
Perhaps the school could cover the core subjects with the rest covered at home. So PE for example could be at home (although not so good in December/January weather!)

It's a shame they didn't let all kids go back part time in June and July. I thought straight away they were being stupid thinking the begining of autumn was a good idea. So many kids will be off with viruses and all the worry and stress it's going to cause.

Also i don't agree that the working parents kids should get to go back and the others stay home. It's not fair that some kids will continue to learn and mix and get an education and others are alone at home with minimal interaction. My daughter wasn't allowed a place as they decided to just have keyworker kids in. She's missed half of reception and is mentally ready for year one. I think all kids should go back part time when it's safe to do so and build up if cases stay low.

• people want schools back to normal, then they shouldn't be part of the "Let's get everything back to normal NOW" crew, they should be part of the "No holidays, no pub lunches, essential trips only" crew. So you're saying we can have schools but absolutely nothing else? For how long?*

How long is a piece of string ? We are in the throes of a global pandemic, we need to get our priorities right. Pubs etc do not matter at all compared to schools and other vital public services.

@FrippEnos that's true. Anything is worth a shot & something is better than nothing. Even if only the people who CAN wear them, wore them, then that has got to help.
Not sure how my 6 YO would get on with one, he's a fiddler & is known to chew buttons, zips, collars etc but again, anything is worth trying.

Perhaps the child in question should wear the paintball mask if needed [grin[

[quote StaffAssociationRepresentative]@TrustTheGeneGenie - sorry I thought we were still fighting a pandemic. Maybe I got that wrong.[/quote]
Considering we are not at all back to normal, I can't understand why you are confused?

The first thing that needs to happen is to stop talking about "schools", and start talking explicitly about primary schools and secondary schools. They are completely different in terms of how they function and what they most need to provide.

@pepperycinnamon

* people want schools back to normal, then they shouldn't be part of the "Let's get everything back to normal NOW" crew, they should be part of the "No holidays, no pub lunches, essential trips only" crew. So you're saying we can have schools but absolutely nothing else? For how long?*

How long is a piece of string ? We are in the throes of a global pandemic, we need to get our priorities right. Pubs etc do not matter at all compared to schools and other vital public services.

I haven't been to a pub so id agree.. except that working in pubs pays people's wages.

What happens to these people?

Gwynfluff Do you really think schools and teachers have that freedom to stride out and go their own way? Please blame the government who leave the schools hanging for the next piece of guidance that has to be rigorously followed.

@pepperycinnamon pubs might not be essential but the people who work at them can't just be forgotten about. I think schools should be the priority but what is the solution for the staff who work at these non essential places? Furlough forever?

Shitfuckoh

Perhaps the child in question should wear the paintball mask if needed [grin}

You should have seen the trouble we had leaving the paintball place.

But yeah why not. it would get around the problem.

(we had several gas-masks at the start of this)

@user1497207191

At the end of the day, the civil servants across the board are just plain incompetent and not fit for purpose. Govt ministers aren't the ones making (or not making) plans - they're just the figure heads. It's the civil servants in each dept who should be the experts and making plans etc.

As we've already seen with the Covid self employed support - the civil servants in the Treasury and HMRC made a right botched job of it with 3 million self employed falling between the cracks. That's following a 20 year history of the Treasury/HMRC civil servants fouling up the tax system and making it more complex and with more loopholes.

This is nonsense.

Ministers give the orders, it is really unfair to blame the civil servants. This country just attacks everything that's good, these people have decades of experience.

It isn't their fault the current government is the worst we've ever had.

Not to mention the fact a) the civil service got badly cut and b) there's a lot of brain power taken up by Brexit.

@FrippEnos I can imagine! My eldest loves his swimming with school & they had trouble getting him to leave the pool for quite a while!

Why are pub staff any different to staff in soft play, night clubs, event organisers, people who work in conferences, festivals....?

I think schools should be the priority but what is the solution for the staff who work at these non essential places? Furlough forever?

I think furlough should be by sector, and be tapered off once a sector is allowed to re-open, being allowed to support part-time working in that taper period.

So pubs should not be allowed to re-open inside (all-seater restaurants and cafes could, with social distancing) and so the furlough scheme should still be allowed to apply to a proportion of a pub's employees.

Meanwhile all e.g. orchestral musicians should still be furloughed, because no concert halls have been allowed to hold live performances. It's the 'all or nothing' nature of the furlough scheme, which means it is paying the wages of some companies that could be open while will soon stop paying the wages for organisations which by law cannot operate, that is an issue here.

I am worrying so much about what to expect in September. My daughter catches every bug in the winter and it turns straight into a cough. So we will be sent home so many times and my work will then become pissed off with me. I have already been furloughed till September and my work have just emailed asking for voluntary redundancies.

One minute Boris wants everyone to rush back to their workplaces, next he's panicking about second waves. Make your mind up man.

@Squeekybummum I can relate to the every bug - One of my DCs school have said even if signs of flu/cold to keep them home. Mine seemed to have a runny nose all last autumn/winter!
Sorry to hear about the redundancies.

@Mummypig2020

How come all the schools didn’t close through the lockdown when they were open to front line staff children? Surely those children would more likely carry the virus than others?

There was outbreaks and closures in some, even with the small numbers that were back in school. They were manageable to contain but do you have faith in track and trace keeping up with the cases when 8 million kids are back? If we are starting off with zero cases possibly but we are not at this level in much of the UK.

I left teaching four years ago to stay at home with my son, fully intending to come back once he’d started full time school, supposedly this September. You couldn’t tempt me back to teaching at double my pay now! It was hard enough anyway, but I’ve seen the complete bashing they’ve had on MN throughout and are seemingly still getting.

Hats off to all you teachers, you’re doing a brilliant job and I’m amazed you haven’t all downed tools and quit!

So you're saying we can have schools but absolutely nothing else? For how long?

Well, we could have done it throughout May couldn't we? Asked for volunteer teachers in each school to go back with year groups starting with exam groups in secondary, and year 6 in primary. Part time, 15 at a time, morning or afternoon. Or week on, week off. See how it went over a 2 week period- no increase in infection numbers (or, a tolerable increase), then add more children in from other year groups. See how it went for another 2 weeks, see what happened. Then a few more year groups and another 2 weeks. Straight through half term (with promise of early summer finish or something).

If it was proven to be safe (we hope), then more teachers would be happy to go back, more parents happy to have their children in school. If it worked, then we might have been able to have all children in school part time between beginning of May and mid July. No extras, screw leavers assemblies and all that stuff, just be within your bubbles - maybe not 'your' teacher, but still education. Teachers are 'exposed' to two lots of bubbles, but in a much more distanced way. And to begin with, when testing it out, with the older children who would have been able to follow instructions on distancing etc.

There would have been no issue with volunteer teachers. No matter what a lot of people seem to think, nearly all teachers were in school within days of school closure. My school asked for volunteers for Easter weekend, and every single teacher volunteered. We all put our hands up for going in on the first Monday after closure back in March. If it was done as safely as possible, without the feeling that we were being lied to, or even tricked, we'd have been more likely to do it.

Open pubs and shops etc from mid June onwards. As has just happened. But with children at this point all having had 3 weeks school, and another 3 to go.

If you knew for sure that school was safe, would you take it easy over the summer? Despite pubs etc being open by this point? Probably - if you knew your children could go back to at least 50/50 education in September safely, and possibly 100% schooling safely (because data by that point might have backed that option up), would you be more or less likely to have a 'sensible' summer within some SD guidelines? Who knows. Just one of the unknowns.

For this to have worked we'd have needed a government that didn't lie. It would have had to have been honest about school outbreaks. It's already hiding that information carefully in a table on page 11 of of 32 page report that isn't part of the news.

I suggested this right back in April.

How come all the schools didn’t close through the lockdown when they were open to front line staff children? Surely those children would more likely carry the virus than others?

183 outbreaks in schools in the last 4 weeks.

@Mummypig2020

How come all the schools didn’t close through the lockdown when they were open to front line staff children? Surely those children would more likely carry the virus than others?

Er, social distancing and small groups.

Which is exactly what is needed going forward.

How long is a piece of string ? We are in the throes of a global pandemic, we need to get our priorities right. Pubs etc do not matter at all compared to schools and other vital public services.

Agreed. People need to accept that as much as they want to believe it has all gone away, it has not. We are going to have to make some difficult choices if kids are going to be able to get back to school.

I agree with a post who said primary and secondary schools need to be looked at differently.

Primary schools, yes educate our children but also provide a vital childcare service to many parents. Whether that’s right or not is an argument for another time. Not ideal by any means but these schools should return with “bubbles” of up to 30.

Secondary schools shouldn’t be returning as per current guidelines. We only need to look to Israel to see how infection rate was raised via older pupils, also look at the rates creeping up in Europe. Again not ideal but secondary schools should be planning for blended learning . One week in school, one week out of school. This would allow maximum of 3 year groups in school at any one time. Secondary school pupils (accept SEN) unlike primary aged children should be capable of being “home alone”. The work set in the week at home needs to either be consolidation of the week before or live lessons.