China

[BooseysMom]

We watched a disturbing programme last night investigating the origins of the virus.
The pictures of the wet markets in Wuhan will haunt me for years. Rabbits on the floor with intestines hanging out and animal faeces everywhere. Animals cramped up in cages. I felt sick to the core. The markets were instantly sanitised and closed and they couldn't find where the virus started. Also apparently the government lied about the number of deaths and two young men who were trying to get justice just disappeared one day following visits from police.
It's really terrifying and it ended by saying this is just the beginning ..there will be more viruses unless China really cleans up its act.
Thoughts?

My thoughts are that yes, those wet markets are unsanitary and cruel, but not significantly worse than factory chicken farms here in the UK.
There are plenty of rogue meat institutions in every country.

"there will be more viruses unless China really cleans up its act". Cleans up its act in the wet markets or suddenly becomes a champion of human rights and freedom of expression? what exactly are you trying to say here?

I guess it's true about many meat farms all over the world.

I think I mean it needs to clean up its act in many ways, the markets yes but also the way the government apparently covered up the facts saying the virus is not transmissable to humans, then allowing travel for months until it finally locked down.

Who knows whether it's just hype or not but don't get my dad started on it! He's 82 and is actually in agreement with Trump, that China should be held to account.

The idea that there is some kind of equivalence between Chinese animal welfare and battery farming is ridiculous.

@commentatorz no it's not

He's 82 and is actually in agreement with Trump, that China should be held to account

I agree they should be held to account...I'm far from a Trump supporters, trust me!

Whether it was accidental or not, this has caused more damage to the economy and loss of life than any war could have done.

That programme last night was eye opening.

Aside from the animal cruelty issue surely the point is that livestock farming in the EU has been very heavily regulated for years with traceability and animal passports whereas in the wet markets animals of different species from all over the place are crammed together with no records kept of where they come from or where they end up.

I would think that this would make it very much easier for new diseases to spread through the Chinese live animal markets.

Have you visited China? Lived in China? Been to a zoo in China? I have. Animals have no rights there, and (unless something has changed recently) nothing is off the menu.

This attitude stems from Mao's cultural revolution: to contend that animals have rights is counter-revolutionary and criminal.

I think it was accidentally leaked from the lab in Wuhan. Nothing to do with the wet markets.

I travelled through China some time ago. Even then I was very aware of the discrimination against the Uighur people in Xianiang province.
China under the Communist party is not a very open tolerant society, and I think the West is finally waking up to that.
Their global ambitions are of concern, particularly to their neighbours.
Lord Patton has some strong views on the current Chinese government.

The rest of the world needs to hold them to account for their treatment of the Uighur Muslims. Disappearing them to huge camps. Bussing them across the country to work as forced labour for global brands (that we buy?) I even saw a headline of using their hair. Thank you to some of our MPs who have begun to use the word genocide. Just because they are involved interdependently in our economy does not absolve us of our duty to act against this. Remember learning about nazi Germany and wondering why the world didn't act sooner?

This attitude stems from Mao's cultural revolution: to contend that animals have rights is counter-revolutionary and criminal

I didn't know that...very interesting. We watched the programme last night and the footage of the markets and people sitting amongst animals living in filthy, tiny cages...and I wondered how people could sit amongst such cruelty like it was totally normal.

@ScrapThatThen

The rest of the world needs to hold them to account for their treatment of the Uighur Muslims. Disappearing them to huge camps. Bussing them across the country to work as forced labour for global brands (that we buy?) I even saw a headline of using their hair. Thank you to some of our MPs who have begun to use the word genocide. Just because they are involved interdependently in our economy does not absolve us of our duty to act against this. Remember learning about nazi Germany and wondering why the world didn't act sooner?

I can totally understand why governments don’t act as they’re too entwined financially with China, they’re scared of the repercussions.

I remember the camps being discussed on radio programs a good year ago as they were able to see them being constructed via satellite. They can throw up these huge buildings in days. The world is watching, we know what is going on. Andrew Marr asked the Chinese ambassador about it recently and got a load of bluster.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=v8U4MGRzNJg

@formerbabe

This attitude stems from Mao's cultural revolution: to contend that animals have rights is counter-revolutionary and criminal

I didn't know that...very interesting. We watched the programme last night and the footage of the markets and people sitting amongst animals living in filthy, tiny cages...and I wondered how people could sit amongst such cruelty like it was totally normal.

Because if you treat your people like animals then no one thinks twice about treating animals like animals.

Watched the show last night also. Shocking and disgusting images of caged animals and filthy conditions. Like others say, animal welfare doesn't really exist in China sadly. I definitely believe someone somewhere knows the start of all this...whether it be leaked from a lab or originated in a wet market ...someone knows and there needs to be an investigation and those responsible held accountable. The world and many future generations have and will be affected.

Please could someone tell me the title of this documentary and what channel it was on? I'd like to watch it. Thanks!

That first video wasnt the actually video I was intending to post. This was the actual footage.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=DwBaL-5o1oc

It makes me sick the way animals are treated. It's very visible in other countries. China yes but I've seen horrific sights in India. Even in Europe I've seen animals crammed in to tiny cages in markets. No one cares! I believe our own farming of animals is also inhumane but much more hidden. Doesn't make it better.

Thanks Just...not sure I really want to watch it but off to check it out...

I don't think there's a country anywhere where animals destined for meat are treated humenely.

The EU is the best of a bad lot, and we're walking away from that thanks to the fucking Brexiteers.

I am, like @ScrapThatThen, more immediately concerned about the plight of the Uighur people.

Many of the people whe say they'd have stood up to Hitler and his treatment of Jews and others, are turning a blind eye to this.

It's extraordinary. Sickenining. And all of the protests, petitions, and screaming in to the wind seems useless.

it's extraordinary. Sickenining. And all of the protests, petitions, and screaming in to the wind seems useless.

Exactly. It's gut wrenching, stomach churning, etc. I wish I hadn't watched it.

Not just the animals but the fact those poor men disappeared when they were trying to get to the bottom of way the virus was so badly handled.

I agree that all animals destined for food and produced on an industrial scale are treated in a sickening and despicable manner

a headline of using their hair
Not to mention enforced organ donation ...and the rest ☹️

He's 82 and is actually in agreement with Trump, that China should be held to account

Does that mean that he also thinks that the USA should be held account for the devastation of the spanish flu? Since it originated there and they covered it up.... spain didn't and warned the world.

It's sickening too that the bbc and other mainstream news media have been so quiet about China until recently. Even in the early days of the virus any condemnation towards China was seen as almost racist. I'm not talking about the knuckle scrapers giving Chinese restaurant owners here grief. They along with most Cinese people are not responsible for their government's actions. Money money money is what allowed the rest of the world to turn a blind eye.

And as for Trump he was quite happy making deals with China until this virus affected his country. He didn't care about it before then.