Winter, childcare and covid

[kirinm]

I'll begin this by saying yes I appreciate we are in a pandemic and yes I appreciate the seriousness of what is going on. I've been wfh since March, haven't been on a bus or train since the day I left the office and haven't been to a massive supermarket.

My DD went back to her childminders in late May / June - whenever it was that they were allowed to reopen. She now has a cold which in a childcare setting is a near daily occurrence especially in winter. No cough or temp though so she is okay to go. CM assistant however developed a cough over the weekend and she is now off and waiting to receive a test. As a result, childcare is screwed for at least one day this week. It's a pain but we appreciate this is going to happen. But it just dawned on me how difficult it is going to be managing work for anyone who has a child in nursery / childcare once the winter cold season hits.

We are going to be in and out of self-isolation like nobodies business! I have been fortunate enough to have kept my job and avoid furlough but if childcare is sporadic over the winter, I'm not sure how flexible work are going to want to be.

Not sure what the point of the post is really but I'm really concerned about how things are going to work once those first coughs and colds start coming.

If someone tests negative, do they still have to isolate or once the negative result is back, they can go back to work? Does that remain the case for any others who are having to self-isolate due to being in close proximity?

I have been wondering the same! DS is back at nursery now and I’m applying for jobs! Worried nobody will want to employ me as I have a child and the risks of having to allow me to keep having time off work should he get ill!

@tmh88 I think it is going to be a nightmare! This winter my DD had a cough on and off for weeks. And that was just her. God knows how the other kids were. If the childminder gets sick we all have to self-isolate too so we've got other people's families, the childminder and her assistant's family and our own family to worry about because any of us could set of the need to self-isolate for everyone else.

Yes I think it will too! I’ve had a couple of phone interviews and definitely noticed a change in tone once they’ve found out I have a child! My DS in the winter pretty much throughout has some sort of cough/cold/temp! Just have to hope I suppose!

I envision with the work place and x2 different schools that this household over winter will be permanently in between states of various isolation and awaiting test results.

But as a large percentage of the working population have children something has to be put in place that is more effective than my imagination!

Saying this we really don't want to catch Covid and if there does look like a vaccine could be rolled out middle of next year, it might be worth a few more months of stringent conditions until we get there .......I don't know.

I think the current advice is that those who test negative should remain in isolation whilst they remain symptomatic but can return sooner than 7 days if symptoms clear. As we approach winter it will be essential that other virus' that present similarly to the early stages of Covid are also suppressed as much as possible in order to reduce the need for regular tests and periods of uncertainty, so those who are at a stage of a virus in which they are infectious should remain in isolation whatever that virus is to stop that virus spreading and causing others to need tests.

@StatisticalSense if that is the case, I honestly think another lockdown may be the only way employers will be prepared to give flexibility - because they are forced to. That isn't something I want but I don't know how people are going to manage with being in and out of self-isolation all the time.

I've been worrying about this too as DDs school have said any raised temp or covid symptoms will need a negative test to return. The test is also really unpleasant and I hate the thought of subjecting my 5 year old to that every time she gets a temp or a sniffle over the winter. My friend recently had the test and it made his nose bleed. I think DD will be hysterical. I'm not sure what else they can do though. It's such a tough situation 😔

I too am worried about testing my five year old (sen) I would have to hold her down! The only alternative would be keeping her at home for fourteen days. It's going to be a nightmare. I'm considering home educating.

@kirinm
If the common cold season is anything like normal this year something will have gone badly wrong. All of the measures in place to reduce the spread of Corona should also have a similar effect on reducing the prevalence of other virus' so the number of times people come down with corona like symptoms should remain low. Not requiring those with symptoms similar to corona to remain in isolation would cause many more periods of isolation as it would allow these other virus' to spread.

And employers are not going to be as sympathetic as they were in the first instance. These will be time limited periods of isolation between which things will be relatively normal and therefore it would be reasonable for employers to expect employees to make prioritise work over home education and leisure time during these periods in a way that hasn't been possible whilst schools have been closed for a number of months.

Yes, it's going to be crap.

Schools are going to struggle too. Even if children don't have 'the' virus, there are going to be loads of similar ones going on, so kids in and out all the time waiting for tests. Then if there is one confirmed case in a 'bubble', then you'll have parents keeping children off if they can, so children missing out on learning all over the place.

Goes for staff too - we're all going to get ill, covid or otherwise, so lots of need for cover teachers. Normally, teachers go in to work until they really can't, so there are suddenly going to be loads of issues with supply teachers needed where normally a teacher would just come in because it's easier. This year we'll have to take time off to get a test.

@StatisticalSense

And employers are not going to be as sympathetic as they were in the first instance. These will be time limited periods of isolation between which things will be relatively normal and therefore it would be reasonable for employers to expect employees to make prioritise work over home education and leisure time during these periods in a way that hasn't been possible whilst schools have been closed for a number of months.

Oh I get that. It isn't educating my not quite 2 year old that is concerning me! Trying to get any work done with her around is just not possible.

I’m a childminder. I am preparing for an Autumn term from hell. It’s normally my favourite term, so many festivals to cover, Autumn coming in, lovely walks collecting Autumn treasure, getting ready for Christmas and all the lovely things we normally do.

Instead, as you describe, I can see it being a nightmare, having to phone parents to collect immediately because their child has a temperature, then having to deep clean my home, the worry while waiting for the test results to come back. If it’s negative, great, they can come straight back as long as they are now well, (But by the then, the parents will have had probably a day and a half off at least) but if it’s positive, it’s 14 days off for the child’s household, plus everyone in the childcare setting. Which means no pay for 2 weeks for me. I have no idea how work settings are going to accommodate parents who need to stay at home with isolating dc, but they are going to have too. I can see it being horrendous for everyone.

@ohthegoats

Yes, it's going to be crap.

Schools are going to struggle too. Even if children don't have 'the' virus, there are going to be loads of similar ones going on, so kids in and out all the time waiting for tests. Then if there is one confirmed case in a 'bubble', then you'll have parents keeping children off if they can, so children missing out on learning all over the place.

Goes for staff too - we're all going to get ill, covid or otherwise, so lots of need for cover teachers. Normally, teachers go in to work until they really can't, so there are suddenly going to be loads of issues with supply teachers needed where normally a teacher would just come in because it's easier. This year we'll have to take time off to get a test.

That is another good point. Most people go into work until they absolutely can't do it but that'll have to stop now.

We will all be heavily relying on the tests to be working with results coming back quickly.

@Maryann1975

I’m a childminder. I am preparing for an Autumn term from hell. It’s normally my favourite term, so many festivals to cover, Autumn coming in, lovely walks collecting Autumn treasure, getting ready for Christmas and all the lovely things we normally do. Instead, as you describe, I can see it being a nightmare, having to phone parents to collect immediately because their child has a temperature, then having to deep clean my home, the worry while waiting for the test results to come back. If it’s negative, great, they can come straight back as long as they are now well, (But by the then, the parents will have had probably a day and a half off at least) but if it’s positive, it’s 14 days off for the child’s household, plus everyone in the childcare setting. Which means no pay for 2 weeks for me. I have no idea how work settings are going to accommodate parents who need to stay at home with isolating dc, but they are going to have too. I can see it being horrendous for everyone.

It is going to be tough. I was talking about it with my CM this morning - she has had a nightmare just trying to juggle arrangements for this week. If her assistant tests positive then it'll be 9-10 families isolating.

I think it's going to depend on how many cases the UK are getting. If we are getting loads, everyone will be in and out of isolation, but all just working out ways around it for work. If cases stay low / zero in many areas then pressure will grow to isolate only with a fever in some regions, while other regions have the full isolation because of more cases. We're all going to get used to checking case-maps like the weather to determine what we do.

It's the constant testing that worries me. A friend had to test her 1yo, who had a slight temp a few days after starting back at nursery. They wouldn't take her or her sibling back without a negative test.

Having to do that to little ones at a drive through test centre continually all winter fills me with horror.

I assume they are working full out on instant saliva tests, as when schools are back it is going to be constant.

I teach secondary and my DD is three. The last couple of winters she's had a permanent runny nose and an intermittent cough (as have I) normally we power through unless she has a temperature, and then take it in turns to fall on the sympathy of our employers/summon the grandparents.

I can see a large portion of the winter being spent getting tested/waiting for symptoms to subside.

I need to double check the procedure for a child with a cough and a negative test to be honest, if she can't go to nursery but adults don't have to self isolate I might have to move the grandparents in for the duration!

It's a good point that teachers generally keep on trucking unless actually delirious from flu or unable to leave the toilet with noro, so staff absence is going to be through the roof.

@captainmerica I hadn't even thought about having to get her tested. I can barely get a toothbrush in her mouth if she's not in the mood.

[quote kirinm]@captainmerica I hadn't even thought about having to get her tested. I can barely get a toothbrush in her mouth if she's not in the mood.[/quote]
I have a 3yo, and I might get away with it once with decent bribery. That won't work twice though, I suspect. He's back to nursery soon and I am very anxious about it.

I've also been worrying about the winter with my 2 year old and our childminder. Thankfully I can work from home, so if there is a case at the childminders (and DS is symptom-free) I can WFH and DH can continue as normal. It's stressful trying to make plans for the unknown though.

I read something about small children only needing their noses swabbed, not the throat. I'm hoping I read that correctly because that might make testing a tiny bit easier!

I think this term is going to be so disrupted.

Don't forget teachers also have children - if their children go off with a cough how can they teach?

I sound like whatshername, Cassandra, always making woeful prophecies but really, we all work through coughs and colds normally and this year we'll be off work-test-back again so often?

I'm dreading it. Am seriously tempted to take unpaid leave, home ed and re-emerge next Easter.

Except one of them has exams

StatisticalSense

'If the common cold season is anything like normal this year something will have gone badly wrong. All of the measures in place to reduce the spread of Corona should also have a similar effect on reducing the prevalence of other virus' so the number of times people come down with corona like symptoms should remain low. Not requiring those with symptoms similar to corona to remain in isolation would cause many more periods of isolation as it would allow these other virus' to spread.'
*
In school, where social distancing won't be happening, colds etc (or Covid) will spread just as they usually do

@ohthegoats

Yes, it's going to be crap.

Schools are going to struggle too. Even if children don't have 'the' virus, there are going to be loads of similar ones going on, so kids in and out all the time waiting for tests. Then if there is one confirmed case in a 'bubble', then you'll have parents keeping children off if they can, so children missing out on learning all over the place.

Goes for staff too - we're all going to get ill, covid or otherwise, so lots of need for cover teachers. Normally, teachers go in to work until they really can't, so there are suddenly going to be loads of issues with supply teachers needed where normally a teacher would just come in because it's easier. This year we'll have to take time off to get a test.

Yes, I agree. People are deluded if they think schools are going to be back to normal in September-children/teachers/classes/schools will be in and out of self isolation for months.

If a teacher is off with symptoms, it’s likely by the time they are feeling unwell, they have already passed it on to the TA, lunchtime staff and the front row of the class, if not more of them (in secondary-this will be numerous classes).

The head will try to keep those classes open whilst hoping the teacher doesn’t test positive. To do this, they need to get a supply teacher in. In March, it was like finding hen’s teeth to get a supply as so many staff members were off and schools were all frantic trying to find people, and I think supply teachers are going to be reluctant to go into a class where the teacher is off ill with potential Covid-19 and may have passed it on to the class they would have to stand near for the day! Who’s to know where the supply teacher was the day before (and the days before that...) as well!

All our ‘stock’ of local ex teachers who are retired and used to come in to do supply, are over 60 and none will be back doing cover-they’ve made that quite clear.

I think parents will become very pissed off that they’ll get texts at 7am saying their class child’s will have to be closed and maybe then they’ll wish that the government had put a bit more money into opening schools more safely.