To wonder why East Asian countries can cope with wearing masks?

[sallyballynally]

Picture is of a poster in Seoul subway encouraging people to report others who are not wearing masks. I can only imagine the absolute tantrums that would occur on Mumsnet if that happened.

It constantly baffles me at how in Japan, South Korea and China people actually manage to be sensible and wear masks. My sister is in SK right now and EVERYONE wears a mask, no exceptions. Even toddlers wear them. There's no "it's too hot", "I want to see people's faces", "My humaaaaan rights". It's to the point that people on buses will bang on the windows if they see a pedestrian not wearing a mask. Some posters will say that they wouldn't want to live somewhere where they're socially pressured into wearing a mask. Yeah, I wish we were a country like Japan where there was no lockdown and 996 deaths. Why? Because masks. What is it about British people that makes us so contrary?

I am not sure that any European country has got this right.

www.euronews.com/2020/07/14/coronavirus-how-the-wearing-of-face-masks-has-exposed-a-divided-europe

"It's incredible the number of people who suddenly have a condition that renders them completely unable to wear a mask even for a short time."

No people have had conditions like autism their whole lives. It's just that YOU have never given any thought to the difficulties those conditions might create for people. It's YOUR ignorance talking.

Going off topic but I've long wanted to have a go on a Japanese loo.

Vanguard Interesting hearing more about Japan. I’ve visited Tokyo but that’s it.

Do you know, did they stop the public transport for CV? Because they do get squashed in (from pics I’ve seen) and I’m not sure masks would stop spread in that case. Or maybe it did?

What I'm reading on MN now just astounds me.

There's thread after thread exclaiming how terrible lockdown is for the country, for people's mental health, for children, for the NHS (non Covid) and how we must get things open again BUT then we've got multiple posters refusing to wear masks (or muzzles as they like to call them) because they want to see people's faces, they're too hot, uncomfortable, it's a breach of their human rights (!), there's now posts where people are saying they won't follow quarantine rules on return from Spain, won't tell their employer where they've been on holiday, and posters proudly admitting that they supply false information when going to pubs and restaurants in order to avoid track and trace.

So, they want to get the country open again but then refuse to follow the rules that will allow that to happen? Selfish, selfish people

Yeah, I wish we were a country like Japan where there was no lockdown and 996 deaths. Why? Because masks.

There is no evidence that the low death rate is due to masks.
They are a completly different country to us. There are so many different variables and factors to take into account when comparing the death rates of one country to another - so much so that's its litrially pointless.

It will take years to collate all the data of all countries and work out what factors made desernable differences to the outbreaks and fatalities and which were negligible factors.

The fact these respetory infections always start off in these mask wearing Asian countries makes me think the masks, don't actually do fuck all.

I think generally the Japanese are healthier; their obesity rate is only 4%, compared to 28% here.

The only posters I’ve seen saying that they won’t wear masks are either exempt, or are also saying they’ll avoid shopping and public transport until the rules are relaxed. That’s perfectly reasonable and fair enough.

The fact these respetory infections always start off in these mask wearing Asian countries makes me think the masks, don't actually do fuck all

Yes well there is that.

Also not all so “caring” and “considerate” that they don’t stop their vile animal husbandry and food hygiene practices that cause the bloody viruses in the first place.

The only posters I’ve seen saying that they won’t wear masks are either exempt, or are also saying they’ll avoid shopping and public transport until the rules are relaxed. That’s perfectly reasonable and fair enough

I agree, i may have seen a handful of posters refusing to wear a mask but on here anyone even complaining about masks or caveating Their mask usage Turns into hundreds of posters refusing to wear masks

Japan has a very aged society. At the beginning of coronavirus, I assumed that it would be badly hit as it seemed to be adversely affecting the elderly. However, Japan has had a relatively low death rate. I suspect a lot is down to health as others have said. Low levels of obesity, low levels of diabetes and low levels of high blood pressure. I must admit to being overweight and coronavirus has really spurred me on to be healthier. It's also possible that Japanese were affected by a previous coronavirus type illness that has conferred some immunity. But, I wonder about India, as India has an obesity rate at 5%, but a higher death rate than Japan. There are still so many unknowns about this virus. It's very worrying.

BUT then we've got multiple posters refusing to wear masks (or muzzles as they like to call them) because they want to see people's faces, they're too hot, uncomfortable, it's a breach of their human rights (!),

Very few, if any, have outright said they will refuse to wear a mask. Having concerns and reasons for not liking them should not be confused with an outright refusal.

No idea if anything came of it but early on there was talk of a Japanese flu drug as a treatment. Possibly the Japanese low death rate is due to better treatment (whether that drug or something else) as well as better health in the first place?

Very few, if any, have outright said they will refuse to wear a mask. Having concerns and reasons for not liking them should not be confused with an outright refusal.

That's not true - lots of posters have said they refuse to wear a muzzle mask and a poster yesterday reported a group on SM encouraging people to buy sunflower lanyards and print off government exemption cards when they have no good reason not to wear a mask.

It's incredible the number of people who suddenly have a condition that renders them completely unable to wear a mask even for a short time

Because people want to be special and centre of attention!
(That excludes the very few who really can't wear any type of face covering.)

Yes, I don't think many people are actually refusing, just pointing out that they're not convinced the advantages (which after all we were told were none for months) don't outweigh the disadvantages. I will wear one when I need to be somewhere they're required but I will go to those places less as a result.

So, it depends what the aims were. If it's to slow the spread it will probably work, as fewer people will be these places, if it was supposed to make people more comfortable about returning to normal, that's not really working.

Perhaps the lower Japanese death rate is to do with race rather than culture.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Very few, if any, have outright said they will refuse to wear a mask. Having concerns and reasons for not liking them should not be confused with an outright refusal.

That's not true - lots of posters have said they refuse to wear a muzzle mask and a poster yesterday reported a group on SM encouraging people to buy sunflower lanyards and print off government exemption cards when they have no good reason not to wear a mask.

Lots of people have said they won't go somewhere out of choice where a mask is necessary, that is different to point blank refusing. Over the weekend I went to a Tesco and Heron Foods and I didn't see anyone without a mask.

They'll always be those who outright refuse, but many of those will outright refuse many other things and be all "Freeman of the land" about things. They are however a minority, I'm not going to spend my time worrying about them.

Last statistics I saw for mask compliance had Singapore at the top with 90%. That's still not everyone, even with them revoking work visas for noncompliance. I know Singapore and other nations brought them in a lot sooner, have given face shields as more of an option than some European countries have for certain groups, and many of those nations already have more recent experience with these sorts of illnesses, but part of the cultural aspect for some of those nations is people hiding in their homes due to mental illness and other personal issues that are shameful was also a thing just as much if not more than the mask has been. I don't think many in the UK have the social structures to do that nor think it's automatically the best idea.

I think part of it is that the UK and similar nations shot themselves in the foot at the start when, rather than be clear about non-medical vs medical masks and face shields and the benefits it has with other behaviours, there was a lot of going on about how they're only needed for medical professionals and carers dealing with COVID. The whole 'oh a sock with do for a mask' hasn't helped, it's feeding into the 'it isn't really needed" idea going around as well. It's a mess, but we have to consider our social systems and structures and who we're willing to support rather than looking elsewhere.

Japan has a very aged society. At the beginning of coronavirus, I assumed that it would be badly hit as it seemed to be adversely affecting the elderly. However, Japan has had a relatively low death rate.

Could the fact the elderly are cared for at home by extended family, rather than in care homes as in Europe also be a factor.

sleepyblueocean your argument would hold weight if i didn't have mental health issues and an autistic child. Its just that some of us are willing to have a crack at things and do our best for others as well rather than immediately shrieking "I just can't!!!" as soon as we are asked to inconvenience ourselves.

MissBaskinIfYoureNasty and of course all people with mental health issues are exactly the same with the same difficulties. I mean why bother having things like DLA/PIP assessments or Ehcp assessments because everyone is exactly the same with the same difficulties.

I have an autistic teenager so my argument also holds weight.

I'll tell him to crack on with it and see how far that gets me. Oh wait - he won't have a clue what I am talking about.

I suspect low levels of obesity / fewer overweight people have more of an impact on death rates from Covid but who knows - still waiting for an evidence based study

Could the fact the elderly are cared for at home by extended family, rather than in care homes as in Europe also be a factor.

I had thought inter generational living was not a plus, although care homes are clearly a minus, so on balance not sure.

Japan’s numbers are so low I’d live to hear more from anyone living there atm.

Japan may have a lot of elderly people, but I’ll bet they’re healthier in their old age than here in the UK. I remember reading that the idea of 10,000 steps a day as a reasonable goal for exercise originated as a public health campaign in Japan to keep their ageing population active and in good health.

This thread does make me wonder if people are more interested in policing others attitudes rather than their actions. In my opinion it’s too early to tell how compliant people are going to be; masks in shops has only been a thing for 3 days and there are bound to be people who are genuinely forgetting. But moaning on the internet does not translate to an actual refusal to wear a mask. I’ve referred to them, jokingly, as “government muzzles” on another thread, yet I’ve been wearing mine on London public transport since TfL made them compulsory and I encourage my children to wear theirs, despite them both being under 11 and one having ASD. Which matters most?

Another issue which makes me wonder this is the rampant incorrect wearing of masks; I’ve seen waaaaay more people on public transport with their masks under their noses or chins than people not wearing them at all. There was even a story in the news about a fight breaking out on bus when a woman had a go at another person for not wearing a mask, and the video footage showed the woman had her mask pulled under her nose the whole time! And yet some posters seem far more outraged by a few people on MN saying that they don’t like masks so they won’t go shopping than people wandering around, snorting all over the fronts of their masks with their uncovered noses then touching them when they pull them back up again.