My sister who lives in Spain should cancel her trip to visit us in the UK

[battenburg100]

My sister lives in Spain and is due to visit us next week for 5 weeks.

Now there has been a Coronavirus surge in Spain and everyone travelling from there to the UK,will have to quarantine for 2 weeks, the trip has thrown up some issues for us as a family.

She would be quarantining at my parent's house who are in their seventies (in good health) - the worry is that her staying there could be putting them at risk. Their house is too small for her to be able to quarantine/self-isolate effectively and she can't stay with me, as I live with someone clinically vulnerable and also live in a small house. There isn't the money for her to stay in a hotel during the 2 weeks quarantine.

The visit home means alot to my sister and my parents don't want to disappoint her, despite being uncomfortable with the risk. My sister is not at all worried about Coronavirus and doesn't understand what all the worry is about, in relation to her trip. She also feels she is at more risk of catching Coronavirus here in the UK, than in Spain!

My view is that the trip should be cancelled, but that decision is ultimately up to my parents to make.

What would you do - let the trip go ahead and take a risk, or cancel?

Thanks for your advice.

Is there any reason to think she has the virus? How does testing work in Spain, could she have a test before she leaves, not to stop the quarantine but to help with the worry?

Is it worth spelling out the reality of her stay? She won’t be able to leave your parents’ house at all, not even to pop to the shops or see the rest of the family. Nor will your mum and dad, If they can’t isolate within the same house. No one can visit, not even to sit in the garden. Etc. The reality of a full 2 weeks like that might be enough to make her think twice? It’ll be pretty claustrophobic

A couple of thoughts:
Can your sister start isolating in Spain NOW, with the hope that if she has picked up something before she travels, she knows about it before her trip?
Can you and your parents temporarily move into one house, and leave the second house for your sister to reduce the number of people totally isolated?
Where in Spain is she coming from? A hotspot (or airport associated with one) or somewhere else?

I dont envy any of you needing to make the decision.

Unless she's coming from one of the areas with new localised rises in cases, she's more likely to catch it in the UK tbf, if you look at the "Covid maps" of both countries.

I wouldn't come if I were her though, too much uncertainty for everyone. What if the borders are suddenly totally closed? Would it be worth it?

For me it would firstly depend on what area of Spain she's coming from, and through which airport. There was a map someone posted yesterday afternoon in the Spain thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3976472-Spain?pg=5. Much like the UK, there are areas of low infection and areas of high infection (though many more infected in their areas of high infection). If she's wearing a good quality mask, doesn't work outside the house and is being careful then she'll be fine, but it sounds like she isn't taking it seriously. The "Oh I'd catch it in the UK" comment means she has no idea what the actual infection rates are, nor the difference between community infection and other outbreaks, so that increases the risk that she won't be careful enough.
I'd also consider what happens if the situation worsens over 5 weeks with her region of Spain back into full lockdown, can she realistically stay for longer and work?

@MorningManiacMusic - I don't think you have actually looked at a map of infections in the UK. Here it is:
phe.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=47574f7a6e454dc6a42c5f6912ed7076. A few areas like Leicester, Blackburn etc are bad, many areas have had low/ zero new infections for a while now. Flippant comments don't actually help others in assessing risk.

I wouldn’t want someone going through an airport and then sitting on a plane coming into my house... in fact I said no to a friend who asked to do that last week. I would be upset if my sister did that and then out my parents at risk... in my view it’s just not worth the risk to my parents. She doesn’t have to cancel her trip she could postpone it!

Really needs to self isolate on arrival. Do any friends or family have spare accommodation

@MRex

Sorry i think I’m Being dim, how do you use that map you sent? Is the bits is blue where there are lots of cases?

I can't remember if it's an option on the government Covid test website, but could she come to the UK and get a drive through test and then, assuming it's negative, have a normal holiday with you all? Not sure what the exact rules are, but that could be a feasible solution?

@OverTheRainbow88 - yes. Blue are new cases, you click on a blue area and it brings up the area name plus a circle with an arrow >, click on that and it says how many cases that week.

@DappledOliveGroves - someone can get a negative test and then their symptoms come up to 14 days later, at which time they would test positive. That's why there's a quarantine period, not just a test.

Thank you

I wasn't being flippant.

There are more active cases in the UK than in Spain, and territorially it's much smaller. As the OP hasn't specified, we can't say, but if her sister is coming from Caceres (for example) and going to Leicester, she's more likely to pick it up in the UK. If she's coming from Barcelona and going to Bourton on the Water, then the opposite.

A lot of the localised outbreaks in Spain have also been traced to their patient zero and have about 10 people involved but they are still registering (I saw on a thread where there were a few Spanish residents) and local lockdowns implemented.

I don't know about the veracity of that, but I see no reason to not believe the Spanish authorities any more than I do to believe the UK ones. Given both track records.

And I don't see anywhere in my post that was flippant rather than empirically factual given the Covid situation and handling thereof in both countries.

I'm in neither FWIW, and won't be travelling to either any time soon..

Ooh that map is really interesting.

I had a shock as was big blue blob by where I live then realised it was the local lake!!!

What does 'data suppressed' mean on the map (the white bits, I think)?

Given that neither UK nor Spain has a verified number of active cases, that's an interesting claim @MorningManiacMusic. What you said was "she's more likely to catch it in the UK tbf, if you look at the "Covid maps" of both countries", that is not empirically factual if you look at actual infection rates. What's most significant as a difference is that in Spain a lot of the infection is from within the community, young people out partying, whereas in the UK in most areas (a couple of known towns excepted) a lot of new infection is based around specific centres. If there is infection in the community then people are more likely to catch it from those active cases and it's less easy to get on top of than if an outbreak arises in a factory / care home / etc where active cases are tracked and isolated.

Oh I’m not sure What that means . I just went with blue-bad, white- good!

Could you and your parents stay in one house while she quarantines in the other?

@BSJohnson - Wales and Scotland, presumably this tool has access to their data but they don't want to be included, or don't want to be included while it's in beta mode, I'm not sure.

I'd get her to isolate in Spain for two weeks and then drive to the uk (long drive, but...). Take a test. Go to your parents if clear.

If the trip means that much to her.

I'm not in the uk, and I had a similar dilemma about coming back. I'd have done it if I didn't have small children, and maybe I will do it if the situation persists into October (next point where we will have vacation).

@OverTheRainbow88 - I don't think there are lakes in blue, did you try clicking on it? There may be some people who've been diagnosed this week near you.

Will she be able to self isolate at your parent's house? I mean, legally??

I want to go to Canada but can't stay anywhere except a hired self catering accommodation. That's because the regs say I can't stay with anyone over 60 or vulnerable. So that means not seeing any of my family for the first 2 weeks at least. not much point.

Thanks, @MRex!

😬 eek now wish I hadn’t looked at the map!