Holiday abroad and work. Are you allowed?

[OnceUponACat]

Has your employer forbidden you to go abroad? To a non 14 day isolation country?
Can they even do that?

Ours have said if you work from home do what you like (you cab just wfh when isolating if you go somewhere that requires it) but if you can't wfh then they will only really accommodate you if you booked before the quarantine was in place. If you booked after the it's annual leave or unpaid.
But employers can't tell you where you can go - if you have the holidays approved you can go anywhere surely?!

Our school have said if it was prebooked they will honour the 14 days and pay, but you aren’t allowed to make a booking now that would delay your return to work in September.

Ours have recommended that we don't. Any quarantine time needs to be taken as annual or unpaid leave. Unless it was booked before March.

Even to travel To places that don’t require quarantine?

Ours have said that if the holiday was booked pre-covid they will accommodate any quarantine period with wfh even if not your normal role. If it wasn't, you have to take it from annual leave or unpaid.

Ours announced this week that, even though we're working from home generally (a few go in, but roughly 90% WFH at present), if you go abroad for any non essential travel, you must then self isolate for 14 days on return and that you must take (annual or unpaid) leave for that period also.

I don't see how your employer can dictate what you do during your time off. Is there something missing from this?

I wonder however how they can enforce that. If the gov is not imposing the 14 day quarantene how can they? I mean yes they can ask you to wfh or isolate but surely not unpaid and surely they cannot tel you you cannot go? Legally. On which basis?

It is not my employer. It’s my dh’s but it is exactly like @BiddyPop’s said. Imo they can’t. Yes if you go to a country that requires it, it is your problem to factor trhat in but surelt not to one that doesn’t!

On one hand I can see that employers might think of travel abroad as high risk and have to consider their entire workforce and any interaction with the public and how an outbreak could damage their business. On the other given that cases are higher here than most other countries, employees are just as likely to contract it holidaying here.

@gotothecooler

I don't see how your employer can dictate what you do during your time off. Is there something missing from this?

They can’t dictate where you go for your annual leave, but they can insist you are in work when you are not on annual leave. So if you choose to go somewhere that means you can’t go to work for 14 days after you return, they are perfectly entitled to impose sanctions on you - not for having been on holiday, but for not being in work when you are not on holiday. If you can foresee that this will be the effect of you going on holiday when you book, you don’t really have a leg to stand on. I would imagine that is technically true even if you couldn’t anticipate this when you booked (I.e. if you booked pre-Covid) but employers may decide to be kinder in this case.

The problem is that the quarantine rule may come back if cases rise or a particular country you have visited has a large outbreak. It's all very tenuous at the moment. We were going away but have decided not to in case guidelines change. We can't afford to stay home two weeks with no salary.

Crenue ok but if you go to a country thet does NOT have the 14 days quarantene what have you got to impose. You will be back to work at the end of your annual leave, unless you get sick in which case you wont. But you may get sick during your uk annual leave as the virus is here too, or you may even get sick not on your annual leave if on your weekend when you go to an illigal rave or to a pcked beach.

Rayn this is true but this can happen everywhere at anytime. So how can they discriminate between travelling abroad and travelling, say to Leicester or London.

I get it that it is complicated but I am interested to know how legally they can impose it if there is no ban or quarantene to go to those countries.

They can’t dictate where you go for your annual leave, but they can insist you are in work when you are not on annual leave. So if you choose to go somewhere that means you can’t go to work for 14 days after you return, they are perfectly entitled to impose sanctions on you - not for having been on holiday, but for not being in work when you are not on holiday.

OP has specified that there is NO quarantine in return though.

My take is that they can tell you they want you to isolate (if you have no symptoms) but it will be up to them then to either make you wfh or give you paid leave if that is not possible. They cannot make you pay (buy forcing you to take unpaid or take more AL) for something you are perfectly entitled to do.

Well we had already cancelled our travel a week before this change, but it was actually published in the media the morning after it was issued to staff (late in the evening). If you go abroad for non-essential travel, you must not only self-isolate in return for 14 days but that must be done on your own cost, you MAY NOT be working while self-isolating.

But we’ve all bent over backwards to set up at home and remain very productive.

In our case, regardless of our expectation that the country we had planned to visit would have been on the green list next week, we had intended ordering a grocery delivery for the day after we returned, strictly WFH for the 14 days and keeping DD at home too.

But I will admit to feeling peeved this week about it, and like I don’t want to give anymore flexibility at the moment to my employer. As I have been running myself into the ground and really really need the week I was taking off.

@Biddipop I don’t get how they can enforce it though. I really don’t. If the gov guidelines are that one can travel then who can tell you that you can’t?

I work in a school.

If holiday is to a red zone where quarantine is in place on return to the UK:

• If holiday booked pre Covid then quarantine periods will be paid and staff work from home.

• If holiday booked after Covid then quarantine periods will be unpaid, and the holidays are advised against - you need to get permission granted for it be allowed, even unpaid.

If holidays are to non quarantine ( so green or amber) areas:

• then all is fine and non quarantine is required.

They have placed no arbitrary rules of their own regarding staff taking holidays

if you go abroad for any non essential travel, you must then self isolate for 14 days on return and that you must take (annual or unpaid) leave for that period also.

Will that apply to someone who goes in holiday with then U.K. for non essential travel?
If not, why not?
What about if they visit a Hugh risk area such as Leicester or Blackburn?

@Aragog yes that makes perfect sense. It always had.

The more I think about it and the more I cannot think how they can impose it.

Well yes my point exactly. It is not like we haven’t got it here. In fact we have it worse than the countries one may want to visit. Plus this ban is until the end of the year, when children go to school etc.

Ridiculous.

And who is going to be okay for the cancelled holidays - because I can guarantee the companies wouldn't offer, but equally insurance and refunds won't be forthcoming either, as the countries are not in the Dow not visit',or 'only essential travel' zones.

I really can't see how that would stand up to any scrutiny if taken further by an employee to be honest.

Dh's law firm has the same rules as my school in paper, but the reality is most staff could now work from home during self isolation and - if their job can be done effectively from home with no loss of hours/money - they would be paid to work from home during self isolation.

And who is going to be okay for the cancelled holidays - because I can guarantee the companies wouldn't offer, but equally insurance and refunds won't be forthcoming either, as the countries are not in the Dow not visit',or 'only essential travel' zones.

I really can't see how that would stand up to any scrutiny if taken further by an employee to be honest.

Dh's law firm has the same rules as my school in paper, but the reality is most staff could now work from home during self isolation and - if their job can be done effectively from home with no loss of hours/money - they would be paid to work from home during self isolation.