Back to School, self isolation and pods

[Thewoodstar]

So, just had a letter from school outlining what they have planned for September. School have been fabulous and I can’t see that they can do anymore. The teachers have been brilliant and I thank them all.

However I am concerned about sending DC back. They will be in pods of their class. But sharing bathrooms with other year groups. Hand washing is unsupervised. And just the smell from the boys bathroom is at the end of the day Gives me zero confidence in any hand hygiene.

However my primary concern is the families of other children in the pod. I am confident school will do whatever they can to keep everyone safe. And life isn’t without risk. I get that.
But having spent the last 12 weeks watching older children or siblings from my child’s school, hanging about at the beach, in parks etc. No social distancing whatsoever. Massive big groups. The adults freely having parties and bbqs etc has made me worry. I know it’s all subjective and I have been using my parents for childcare as I had to have several hospital appointments, And I have now started meeting others. So I’m by no means overly anxious or the corona police . But I guess I am just worried that we are at the mercy of all these families who don’t have anyone vulnerable and don’t care about the rest of us. And even without the risk to health, if we have to keep self isolating because our children have been at school in a pod with someone who is symptomatic, are the parents of the said child going to financially compensate all the self employed people who won’t be able to work or get paid? I guess once schools in back, if people decide to ignore the social distancing advice etc, they are making decisions not the whole class and not just themselves. Which seems wrong.

Am I missing something?

Deregister your children then.

Fines won't be the first port of call for HTs. There are many steps before that and plenty of HTs won't be fining at all until January at the earliest.

A mixed approach isn't good for anyone really. Students miss contact time and staff don't have enough hours to manage it.

@Hercwasonaroll

Deregister your children then.

Fines won't be the first port of call for HTs. There are many steps before that and plenty of HTs won't be fining at all until January at the earliest.

A mixed approach isn't good for anyone really. Students miss contact time and staff don't have enough hours to manage it.

for being dismissive. This is a complicated issue and people, including me, are worried. For my family, for school staff and for wider society.

I am lucky that our head is really ok and listens to us, not that he has much freedom, but he is really understanding.

I

I think it is actually overly simplistic when one parent says to another 'deregister then'. If it was that straightforward a decision people would.

When my mum complains about something shit at her GP I don't say 'go private then', when people on here moan about neighbours I don't say 'just move house then' - I try to be constructive.

How is that dismissive?!

You're very sensitive. If you don't like the education being offered, deregister your child. This applies pandemic or not.

Everyone's worried. We could all get the virus at any point. But we also can't live like this forever.

You literally have no other option though. Either you send them in as it is, or you deregister.

Part time attendance is futile because other students are all back anyway.

@Hercwasonaroll

How is that dismissive?!

You're very sensitive. If you don't like the education being offered, deregister your child. This applies pandemic or not.

Everyone's worried. We could all get the virus at any point. But we also can't live like this forever.

I am not at all sensitive imo, I added a further post above.

I am not personally upset by your response, but I am pointing out it is a dismissive response as it implies that deregistering would be a simple decision. There is much to lose by deregistering.

The simplistic answer is dismissive of the complexity of the choice.

@Hercwasonaroll

You literally have no other option though. Either you send them in as it is, or you deregister.

Part time attendance is futile because other students are all back anyway.

I will quote your earlier point:

Fines won't be the first port of call for HTs. There are many steps before that and plenty of HTs won't be fining at all until January at the earliest.

@labyrinthloafer

You say "given how few pupils are in school" but this isn't my experience. In my area, all the primary schools now have all their pupils back at school part time (except for a small percentage of children - less than 10% - choosing not to attend).

If you want to avoid the virus, part time attendance is futile.

I don't understand why you have quoted about HTs and linked that to my other post?! I mean HTs will try other types of attendance intervention. Home visits, encouraging attendance, contact with EWO. It's not like they jump from one day off to instant fines.

[quote Tinamou]@labyrinthloafer

You say "given how few pupils are in school" but this isn't my experience. In my area, all the primary schools now have all their pupils back at school part time (except for a small percentage of children - less than 10% - choosing not to attend).[/quote]
None that I know of are, and some of our feeders did not bring back yr 6 at all as no space.

@Hercwasonaroll

If you want to avoid the virus, part time attendance is futile.

I don't understand why you have quoted about HTs and linked that to my other post?! I mean HTs will try other types of attendance intervention. Home visits, encouraging attendance, contact with EWO. It's not like they jump from one day off to instant fines.

If everyone was PT, some semblance social distancing would be possible.

I personally would prefer that.

@Keepdistance what do you suggest schools do then? We have to have everyone back, and the DfE have made it very clear we aren't allowed to reduce teaching hours. We can't just magically build more classrooms and toilets over the summer. What are schools supposed to do? FYI I'm a pregnant teacher going back in September, and will just have to try and maintain hygiene and social distancing procedures as much as I can.

But everyone part time has huge consequences elsewhere.

Have you taught in a socially distant classroom? It's not pleasant.

Current evidence is even with SD being in the same room for 15 mins or more fills it with particles so SD or not, you'd still be exposed if a student had the virus.

Well, I guess the average across the country is somewhere between our two experiences.

Also, I agree with posters saying that the current bubbles aren't actually providing that much protection, because of siblings in different bubbles. So it's encouraging that there haven't been cases of the virus spreading through schools like wildfire.

@Hercwasonaroll

But everyone part time has huge consequences elsewhere.

Have you taught in a socially distant classroom? It's not pleasant.

Current evidence is even with SD being in the same room for 15 mins or more fills it with particles so SD or not, you'd still be exposed if a student had the virus.

One of the reasons they think German schools haven't seen much transmission is small classes in big rooms. One of the reasons they think Israeli schools saw transmission is big groups in smaller rooms.

30 in a room is factually double 15. We can presumably agree on that at least

Therefore every risk is much increased when 30 are in. Be it airborne, touch or proximity.

I would prefer lower risk. Therefore I prefer half time with half classes, SD attempted properly and masks.

I can understand that many parents don't agree with me.

But it isn't no risk Vs risk, it is a sliding scale, and the approach taken is too far up that scale in my opinion.

The risk is obviously higher with more students.

But how do you manage PT on a logistical basis?

15 per room means we'd only have 2 year groups per day (possibly 3 if you included y12).

With 7 year groups in the school, that's approx 2 days per year group in school and the rest out. How is that sustainable or manageable? Teachers can't be setting online stuff for the other 3 days as they'll be in the building teaching. Childcare becomes a huge issue particularly at primary (and women will be disproportionately affected). Furlough is ending so most people will need to be back at work.

@Hercwasonaroll

And that's it really, we're not all going back ft because it is fine now, or the right thing - we're back full time because logistically no one has an alternative.

All the issues with PT that you state are indeed true. But to me (accepting others may see it differently) the issues/risks of PT are not as serious as the issues/risks of FT.

Also the risks of PT are pooled, and the risks of FT are borne by the unfortunate, and culturally I guess the UK tends towards the latter. Personally, I am more in favour of the former.

I think the risks of e.g. disruption to work are greater from FT but will affect fewer in numbers. I guess these disruptions will be borne primarily by the same groups who have been disproportionately affected so far - as school closures presumably more likely in areas where families have frontline jobs, poor housing etc.

I guess the government is relying on most parents feeling reassured enough by the statistical likelihood that their school won't be the one where there's a big outbreak and potentially a very poorly teacher.

The cost of PT isn't really pooled though. It's pooled to some extent but still borne by primary carers, and could lead to huge economic meltdown IF people are unable to work. This will ultimately affect far more people.

It's far easier to stop work for 2 weeks because of a local lockdown, than to spend a year PT work/schooling. Employers will be far more understanding too. The alternative is parents losing their jobs and being unable to support their family financially.

I agree there's a balancing act, and I understand why people are worried. The chances of getting seriously ill are miniscule if you're under 45.

I must admit I’m not 100% comfortable with our schools plans for September either.

Bubbles will be two classes, I.e nursery and reception, year 1 and year 2. When I thought the government said they should be no more than 30, this will be 60.
3 of the 4 bubbles will share 2 toilet blocks between them.
And although I understand that this is out of schools control, my main worry is periods of self isolation. They say if a child shows any symptom of Covid that they will need to isolate for 7 days and the parent for 14 days, so first of all how does the child get to school in the second week when the parent is still self isolating and what about work. I’m sorry but not many parents can take 2 weeks off work every time a child coughs during the winter! It says this policy should stand regardless of the result of the test!

@Hercwasonaroll

The cost of PT isn't really pooled though. It's pooled to some extent but still borne by primary carers, and could lead to huge economic meltdown IF people are unable to work. This will ultimately affect far more people.

It's far easier to stop work for 2 weeks because of a local lockdown, than to spend a year PT work/schooling. Employers will be far more understanding too. The alternative is parents losing their jobs and being unable to support their family financially.

I agree there's a balancing act, and I understand why people are worried. The chances of getting seriously ill are miniscule if you're under 45.

Yes, I see that about the issues not being fairly distributed either way. That is good for thought actually.

I am Extra concerned I suppose because we don't know much about what the virus does. If you said the same likelihood of catching tb i would be less scared I think.

Thanks for explaining your pov to me

It's not going to be easy and I'm not looking forward to it. MDS here, we'll have 90+ in the lunchhall, three bubbles with as much spacing as possible between bubbles, won't be much!. If I have first aid/matter someone higher needs to real with, I'll have to leave my bubble. We can't leave our group totally unsupervised, so I'm going to have to step into another bubble and ask a colleague to look after my bubble as well. If I'm gone 10 mins, highly likely she'll have to enter my bubble to deal with a problem. Also, we follow on from first sitting, it's hard work with 190 children, so there's only time for a quick clean of tables, not thorough. It doesn't seem right that I have to be in a room of 95, but I can't go to say an outdoor party of say 20.

"Deregister and keep your kids at home if you have a fucking problem with it. Let those of us who don't actually let our kids have an education and a future.

Oh no wait cos that would mean yours are missing out - so you want the rest of the world to miss out because you can't get your anxiety levels in control. Yeah - not happening."

100% this!!! Fuck sake get on with it and stop rearing snowflakes that fall over with a gust of wind! YAWN YAWN

@DominaShantotto - high five

@runbummyrun I don’t think people are being over anxious. Why should my child miss out on school because families of other children don’t want to and wont, adhere to basic social distancing and other sensible measures. I would be happy with the school situation if I thought the families of other children were being sensible and following guidelines. From what I’ve seen in my local area with my own eyes and on social media, they are not. And the irresponsible decisions they are making have a serious impact on others.
You can decide not to wear a seat belt yourself if you think it’s snowflakey, but in this case people are removing the seat belt for others and it’s just not a decent thing to do. It’s that ‘I’m all right Jack’ attitude.

No shielding people want to stay shielding, but the irresponsible and selfish behaviour of others is making it unsafe for them.

My good friend has a seriously unwell child with a degenerative life limiting Respiratory condition who was enjoying school before the pandemic. They would love to return, but covid19 would be devastating to them. Now are we a society that cares for one and other or are we saying ‘oh sorry you have a vulnerability but I’m not prepared to inconvenience myself to make things safer for you ).
What about children living with an vulnerable adult? What if we lived with a vulnerable grandparent? I would have to choose between my children’s education and my parents health. But if other families were being sensible it would be okay. It would be a proportionate risk.

Hell why not let all the kids in school take peanut butter sandwiches, if the allergic kids dies, oh well, at least no one will be inconvenienced.

Because honestly that’s what the families carrying on as normal and mixing irresponsibly are doing.

66 day streak in Welsh here, but havent learnt the word for laptop yet

But realistically - lets just be realistic for a second (its hard, i know) - you will NEVER know if other families are being responsible with SD or whatever. Everyone (well you'd hope) knows what the rules are but ultimately there will always be people in society who bend the rules/think they're above them - so what plan do you propose, given that really, you'll never know what other people do in their own time?

As far as I can see it - the options are:
Take the risk and send your kids, accepting that you dont know what the rest of the bubble have been doing/what they've been exposed to but believe that the benefits of being in school outweigh that risk
OR
You dont take the risk and dont send your kids back until you're satistified that regardless of what everyone else has been doing, the risk is acceptable to you