In-Laws Breaking Lockdown Rules

[AV76]

I need some help getting perspective on our current situation with our in-laws, my 7 year old daughter's grandparents. They absolutely refuse to abide by lockdown rules and carry on with their life as if everything is completely normal, and this is causing a lot of tensions in our family.

They are both in their late seventies and both have underlying health conditions which make them very high risk. We fell out with them a few weeks ago when they had their other son and grandchildren round for a get together, before that was allowed. As angry as I am about it, I have been encouraging my husband to put it behind us and move on so that we can start getting along with them again as we usually do.

My in-laws are nice people, but they are (and I feel horrible and stuck up for saying this) not intelligent people. I usually get along well with them but find myself having to continuously bite my tongue at things that they say and do. I have to let a lot of things go for the sake of keeping the peace.

Since our fallout a few weeks ago, they have not seen my daughter, even from a distance, so yesterday we arranged a WhatsApp chat with them. They have now asked if they can come round to see her in person. Now, under the current rules I don't have a problem with that as long as they socially distance properly and don't take advantage of the situation and start behaving stupidly. I do however feel quite anxious about it as they have been going out a lot and exposing themselves to catching covid 19 and mixing with other family. They simply have no sense of the risks.

I myself know several people who have had covid and even one who person who has died from it so I know the risks are very real.

I should add that my daughter is autistic and I believe I am myself so we are real sticklers for the rules in this house! I know that we have the complete opposite views on this whole situation to my in-laws, and that's where the tensions come from, but I don't know if I am being unreasonable by sticking by all the rules so strictly. It doesn't help that their other son is more like them and happy to break rules, so they get to see their other grandchildren a lot more often.

I just hate all the tensions that this situation is causing but am I right in sticking by our way of doing things and hoping that they will learn to respect that? Or am I being unreasonable? I get that they miss their granddaughter but her safety and wellbeing will always come first for me.

I understand you are finding it difficult, what do you think needs to change to in order for you to be happy for the ILs to visit?
Instead of them coming to the house would you feel more comfortable meeting outdoors and going for a walk for example?.
Personally i have no problem with seeing my family now but everybody is different.

Thank you. That's a good point actually, maybe meeting on neutral ground somewhere would help.

I forgot to also add that I suffer from an anxiety disorder and that really doesn't help in situations like these! I easily lose perspective on situations that make me feel anxious, and I'm very aware of that, which is partly why I wanted to run this by other people who might make me see sense if maybe I just need to chill out a bit!

When there are rules to be followed I tend to take it to the extreme, and I was wondering if maybe I am the one doing the damage by getting so angry and stressed out about other peoples behaviour at the moment.

I think somewhere outdoors is the way to go. I wouldn't raise the fact that they're carrying on as if nothing is happening, just point out you as a family aren't comfortable with too much close contact at the moment and for that reason either a coffee in your garden, or as said before a walk perhaps with a cafe nearby so you can all sit outside.

Yes, meet them outdoors.

I think getting angry and stressed about it is pointless though, you can't change their behaviour and clearly they are happy to take the risk.

As you say, they are very high risk, so you would be worried for them rather than yourselves. They are also near the statistical life expectancy, or even over, depending on where you live, so every month you don't meet might be for example 5% of their remaining lifetime (that's only statistics of course, and covid will presumably be lowering average life expectancy). Which part of the rules are they breaking when they visit you btw? Are there options like meeting outside somewhere where social distancing is more naturally enforced (if they are not keen on the 1m+/2m guideline) that might work?

What rules are they breaking? Are they not social distancing?

If you feel uncomfortable having them in your house then meet outdoors and keep your distance.

I have to say my In Laws were very careful at the beginning. They wouldn’t even open the window to talk to us in their garden.

Now they will come over and have dinner outside. We still keep apart etc. I think lots of older people have started to struggle with not spending time with family and friends and it’s their call as to what level of risk they are prepared to take.

Shops, restaurants and pubs are open now. The only ‘rules’ are no large gatherings and having lots of people round your house I guess? It doesn’t sound like they are breaking any current rules. There are guidelines now but it’s generally a personal risk assessment..

Thank you all for your replies. Yes it's mostly things like not social distancing, and before we were allowed to have meetups with families they were already doing it indoors with their other son and grandchildren.

I think what your replies have made me realise is that it's not so much what they are doing that is bothering me because that's their decision and we can't do anything to control that, but that they keep trying to pressure us into breaking rules to suit their wants and needs.

I fully understand that it has been hard for them not seeing much of their granddaughter lately. Especially as they are quite elderly and may be conscious of how much time they may actually have left to spend with their grandchildren.

I am not completely heartless and I do understand this. But I think that I do feel that they keep being a bit disrespectful about what we consider to be safe contact, i.e. social distancing when meeting up and basically following the rules!

For instance, since we made contact yesterday after the fallout, my MIL suddenly just emailed to ask if they can have my daughter over for the day while we are working from home. Well firstly I know they would not socially distance if they did that, and it is impossible to look after a 7 year old whilst socially distancing. My daughter is also too young to be able to stick to social distancing herself. Quite frankly I also just don't trust them to put my daughters wellbeing before their own wants and needs (this feeling goes back a long way long before covid came about for a number of reasons). While we were talking to them on WhatsApp yesterday, their other son and grandchildren were there, and she actually suggested that all of them come round to ours to see us! Well that would be 3 households all meeting up which is not allowed for starters. I did laugh though when her eldest grandchild piped up to put her in her place and tell her that it is not allowed!

As a compromise, we have now invited them to come over for a cup of tea and spend a couple of hours with us in our garden this Friday. I am more than happy to do that sort of thing. My biggest worry is that I know they will do and say things that rile me up while they are here and I worry that I have had so much of this frustration building up lately that there will come a point where I blow my lid and say something that I regret. Maybe I just need to learn to be more tolerant and accept that everybody sees this situation differently. But at the same time I wish they would respect our wishes and boundaries too.

Sorry for waffling and if I sound really mean. I just feel like they get cross with us if they don't get their way but they are not willing to try and understand things from our point of view. I just want to go back to having a nice easy(ish) relationship with them.

I agree, meet outdoors. They are obviously happy to take the risk. My nanna is 82, has advanced kidney failure and has dialysis every other day. She is now demanding somebody takes her to marks and spencers for some new blouses or she is threatening to get the bus... And she will! 🤣 I think alot of elderly people would rather accept the risk if it means seeing their family.

@Jrobhatch29

I agree, meet outdoors. They are obviously happy to take the risk. My nanna is 82, has advanced kidney failure and has dialysis every other day. She is now demanding somebody takes her to marks and spencers for some new blouses or she is threatening to get the bus... And she will! 🤣 I think alot of elderly people would rather accept the risk if it means seeing their family.

Ha ha, yeah and I get that completely!

I think the thing I'm trying to get across is that I understand if they are willing to take that risk, that is their decision. But what if WE don't feel ok taking that risk with them. That is also our decision and surely they should respect that too?

My own mother is actually at the other extreme in that she is totally hiding away and not seeing anyone. I haven't seen her in person since March and I would actually like to drop by (socially distanced outside) to see her and let her see my daughter but I'm too scared to ask her if that's ok as she might freak out!!

I just wanted to write this update in case anyone else is feeling in a similar position. My anxiety was terrible this morning and I had a heart to heart with my husband about how his parents refusal to follow the rules was making me feel very uncomfortable and stressed. What he made me see was that, actually, it's not that they know the rules and choose to ignore them, but much more likely that they don't even know what the rules are.

They practically live in the dark ages. The only news they see is on the TV when they happen to catch it. They don't read news or anything else online so they probably don't even know what the rules are right now.

Their other son is the type to bend or break rules to suit his needs , and as they had been fully socialising with him and his kids, they probably thought this was ok (which at the time it wasn't). Then they couldn't understand why we were not doing the same with them.

This realisation has made me see the situation a bit differently and hopefully now I can manage it a bit better. I hope that when we see them on Friday we can set them straight on a few things which are not ok right now (nicely and tactfully of course), and just make them understand that whilst some people are happy to take risks and break the rules, we are not like that and would rather be safe than sorry. They can absolutely spend time with their granddaughter, as long as it is within the rules and done safely for everybody.

Outdoors sounds like a good solution. I’ve softened a bit over the months... I have elderly relatives who did not take enough care but as we moved through this I can see (not understand, so much as see) that it is their own lives to do with what they will. I might disagree... but other than put support in place and help with practical things there is little more you can do.

They are also near the statistical life expectancy, or even over, depending on where you live, so every month you don't meet might be for example 5% of their remaining lifetime The remaining life expectancy for a 79 year old male is almost 9 years, and for a female is over 10 years. So a month is less than 1% of a 79 year old woman's expected further life span.

I'm mentioning this because too many people (not on this thread) have been talking in terms of "it only affects old people, who would die in the next six months anyway".

@MereDintofPandiculation

They are also near the statistical life expectancy, or even over, depending on where you live, so every month you don't meet might be for example 5% of their remaining lifetime The remaining life expectancy for a 79 year old male is almost 9 years, and for a female is over 10 years. So a month is less than 1% of a 79 year old woman's expected further life span.

I'm mentioning this because too many people (not on this thread) have been talking in terms of "it only affects old people, who would die in the next six months anyway".

A few things from that. I know what you are saying, that if you make it as far as 79 you will live up to 88 on average? But the average life expectancy varies a lot by area. Mumsnet is very southern, rich, focussed but in a lot of areas and by profession, the life expectancy is nowhere near that and even making it to 79 is living 10 years longer then your peers.

That's without going into the life expectancy vs quality of life expectancy. At their age, dementia is an increasing risk, never mind all other age related illnesses. Dementia is of course also the highest risk factor for covid, but that aside, at their age you can see why they might decide that spending quality time with their family is worth taking the risk.

I look around me and don't see people living beyond 80/82. That might be different where you live, but for us, mil is 80, my mother 78, yeah we just make the most of the time. There's no reason to think they will live much beyond 80. Not many people here do. That's without factoring in covid to be honest.

@MereDintofPandiculation, as said that depends on where you live. People around me, in a deprived area of Liverpool and up in deprived areas up North aren't living that long.

If you want to chat statistics, they are still more at risk travelling on roads.

Personally i prefer quality over quantity. As do many others which is why we've always been able to decide what medical treatment we have and if we go into residential homes. Or even risky behaviour, sports etc.

I don't think we should ever be forced to live by the anxiety of others. I also value human relationships. I say that as someone who is autistic and has an autistic DD.

It was always said that those at the end of their lives can make their own decisions. As they can over getting a flu jab etc etc.

Yes I totally get that they are entitled to make their own decisions and I fully understand why their views may be different to ours at their time of life. But that also doesn't make it right that they make us feel guilty about making different decisions to them if we choose to.
Surely they should respect our decisions just as we have to respect theirs, whether or not we agree with them.

At their age, dementia is an increasing risk, never mind all other age related illnesses. Dementia is of course also the highest risk factor for covid

And sadly social isolation is a big risk factor for dementia, how long can you be isolated before the impact is really felt, are video chats sufficient to avoid isolation etc.

OP, I think you've tried really hard to see their POV, and try to find a solution. I hope it works - meeting outdoors sounds like a good plan!. Sticking to the rules isn't just about the individuals concerned, and people are entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts. All you are doing is trying to protect your family and do the right thing by others, so please don't feel bad about it. I really hate the tensions and awkwardness that arise around all this and it must be very hard if close family are on different pages like this.

@MsMartini

OP, I think you've tried really hard to see their POV, and try to find a solution. I hope it works - meeting outdoors sounds like a good plan!. Sticking to the rules isn't just about the individuals concerned, and people are entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts. All you are doing is trying to protect your family and do the right thing by others, so please don't feel bad about it. I really hate the tensions and awkwardness that arise around all this and it must be very hard if close family are on different pages like this.

Thank you, that means a lot. :)

You are very welcome