Asking too much of teachers?

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

It's looking like masks are going to be a requirement in shops and possibly other indoor venues.

Yet teachers are expected to teach - for hours at a time - in confined, poorly ventilated spaces, with no social distancing. They have been told they do not need PPE. If I was still teaching there is no way I'd go into a room crowded with teenagers and not wear a mask at the moment.

Teachers should be allowed as much protection as possible not thrown under a corona bus because Johnson wants them for child care so their parents can go back to work.

I really can't understand why it's going to be compulsory in shops where meetings are fleeting but not in schools which are crowded and have people crammed in for hours.

Does the right of children to go back to school over rule the rights of of school staff (teaching and ancillary) to be as protected as possible?

This means they should be allowed to wear PPE, if they choose, and secondary children should be wearing masks as happens in some other countries. In some countries younger children also have to wear masks in school.

The safety of teachers has been ignored by Johnson and his chums in their urge to get people back to work and the cry of "back to normal" is taken up by those ignorant of the facts about the virus.

Teachers have been made out to be the bad guys almost from the beginning - as can be seen from many bile infested threads on here. They deserve better.

Most primary schools have been back with no issues

Selected year groups have been back in bubbles of 15, desks 2m apart in different zones of the school and playground not mixing with any other bubbles. They also seem to have spent a lot of time outside.

There were 55 outbreaks last week, 44 the week before I think, and 40 something the week before. So around 150 outbreaks and we've been 'back' 4 weeks, with nothing that looks like normal school.

rainbow, and others who seem to believe there have been no issues thus far : there were 23 positive cases in one nursery school in MK. PHE would not close it. There were more outbreaks in schools last week than in hospitals or care homes. Why the media don't report this- well, you tell me.

The school outbreaks are not in the news. Funny that, huh. The numbers are there if you know where to look.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports

can someone please show me where these outbreaks have been reported

The number of incidents in educational settings has increased from 43 in week 26 to 55 in week 27. Since Pillar 2 testing became open to everyone during week 21 more outbreaks of mild disease have been detected in settings with healthy younger populations.

can someone please show me where these outbreaks have been reported

www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports

And I've quoted the 9th July, week 28 summary information re schools.

Wearing a face mask won’t protect you that much from the virus. Masks are worn to protect others.

Office workers are being told to go back into the office. Aren’t they at risk just the same as teachers? The whole country will be back to a semi normal by September.

Sadly I think a second peak will be unavoidable.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/coronavirus-outbreak-nursery-20-children-22253165

The nursery in Milton Keynes.

Peas,

Page 9 of the top document in the link that ohthegoats gave in her post.

55 acute respiratory incidents in educational settings last week (note that this may not include settings where only 1 case is detected).

Wearing a face mask won’t protect you that much from the virus

I know that, but a visor will stop children coughing and sneezing in my face. In January a child coughed up a lump of goo straight into my open mouth. I'll be trying to avoid that.

Office workers are being told to go back into the office. Aren’t they at risk just the same as teachers?

No, because the COVID secure guidelines which apply to every other workplace don’t apply to schools. If an office worker were working in the same environment as a teacher, they’d be required to wear a mask/face covering.

Sorry, I'm still just seeing a massive overall reduction in cases

peas you are switching your argument now. Can you at least acknowledge that there have been outbreaks in education settings despite the far higher measures that are in place compared to what will be in place in September?

Goats, Peterborough is a time bomb and I was not surprised by those statistics. I am nearby. Most of my academy trust schools are there. Come September it will explode.

The point is that this is another case where we are trying to balance potential harm of one kind (lack of normal educational and social interactions, as well as early detection and reporting of health / safeguarding issues, for the young) against harm of another (health risk in school and in the community, predominantly to adults).

The fact that the benefits to a large number of young people of being in school are huge means that of course schools should re-open. however, that doesn't mean that the risks to others should be ignored and that no measures should be taken to mitigate them.

8giraffe* I'm simply not seeing that.
Where are you seeing these "outbreaks"?
I've looked at the graphs and they seem to say a tiny number of people have tested positive ( possibly / probably asymptomatic)

Peas, look at page 9 of the top document in the link.

That shows numbers of outbreaks.

I don’t think there are any teachers arguing that schools shouldn’t re-open.

They would definitely prefer that they opened in a safe manner and are perfectly reasonable in wondering why the protections being demanded of other workplaces are not even been allowed to them.

This bit:

@noblegiraffe

I don’t think there are any teachers arguing that schools shouldn’t re-open.

They would definitely prefer that they opened in a safe manner and are perfectly reasonable in wondering why the protections being demanded of other workplaces are not even been allowed to them.

Exactly.

I'm simply not seeing that.

You dont need to interpret anything. I've quoted the important but re school outbreaks already. Here it is again.

The number of incidents in educational settings has increased from 43 in week 26 to 55 in week 27. Since Pillar 2 testing became open to everyone during week 21 more outbreaks of mild disease have been detected in settings with healthy younger populations.

Do you understand the word 'increased'?

No one is disputing that for the moment, cases are going down. This thread is specifically about schools, where PHE and the Government are reporting an increase in outbreaks since provision was increased in June. Despite them not operating normally at all.

They class an outbreak as 2 people though. The word outbreak makes it sound like it had raged through the school which isnt the case.

There was a thread this morning about office workers wanting to continue to WFH. Lots and lots of posters said there offices were reopening on limited capacity, not reopening any time soon, and come not at all. My NDN says her office is not reopening until October. It is simply not true that other places are fully opening with such limited mitigation.

Masks are recommended everywhere where social distancing is difficult, as a mitigation measure : except schools . You cannot simply just tell school staff to try and stay away from students. Frequent concerns are raised about interior spaces with poor ventilation, particularly where there is limited to no SD and where people spend an hour or more in this environment, and where there are projected voices and shouting.

@Iverunoutofnames

My friend teaches in my old school which specialises in taking students with hearing difficulties and some are profoundly deaf. For a long time they were talking about masks but had no answer for these students. I think it’s an impossible situation.

My Ds has a child in his class with hearing loss . She has hearing aids but mostly lip reads . It is mainstream - it is important these children are considered in the face masks but as a child bin secondary I would support face masks

[quote MrsR87]@finished31
I really don’t want to let the kids down. Especially the years tens who will be year 11 who have had so much disruption already. It’s been great teaching them recently in the bubbles as I know they have made so much progress compared to the online learning.
I also don’t want to let the department down as I would feel that as the HOD I’d be leaving them in the lurch in such uncertain times 😥[/quote]
I totally get you. I'm ex Primary teacher and would always put the children first.

It's so tricky because you need to look after yourself too!