Asking too much of teachers?

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

It's looking like masks are going to be a requirement in shops and possibly other indoor venues.

Yet teachers are expected to teach - for hours at a time - in confined, poorly ventilated spaces, with no social distancing. They have been told they do not need PPE. If I was still teaching there is no way I'd go into a room crowded with teenagers and not wear a mask at the moment.

Teachers should be allowed as much protection as possible not thrown under a corona bus because Johnson wants them for child care so their parents can go back to work.

I really can't understand why it's going to be compulsory in shops where meetings are fleeting but not in schools which are crowded and have people crammed in for hours.

Does the right of children to go back to school over rule the rights of of school staff (teaching and ancillary) to be as protected as possible?

This means they should be allowed to wear PPE, if they choose, and secondary children should be wearing masks as happens in some other countries. In some countries younger children also have to wear masks in school.

The safety of teachers has been ignored by Johnson and his chums in their urge to get people back to work and the cry of "back to normal" is taken up by those ignorant of the facts about the virus.

Teachers have been made out to be the bad guys almost from the beginning - as can be seen from many bile infested threads on here. They deserve better.

Surely shielding is pausing from August 1st? I have a shielded child and advice is she should be in school in September.

Agree re the lack of masks etc though. It’s just a giant attempt to pretend the whole thing never happened in schools. Fingers crossed eh?

You have to be off work if have symptoms. If you have a partner who works in a hospital the it is important to test. And if you have a family member test positive what happens to the teacher? Do you have to self isolate for 14 days or do you go to work now?

And when I see grumbles on social media about teachers being idle and making up obstacles just so they can laze around......... what can you say?

I am a school governor grappling with all this - and with staff working twice the hours we pay them for to try and get everything in place. There is nothing that is acceptable about any of this.

Numbers of infections are falling rapidly. Scotland is pursuing a policy of elimination. It’s much safer now than before lockdown surely. And at that time there were zero masks and SD.

I am quite shocked that parents have been telling their children to hide the fact they have been ill/ brushing any symptom off.
This is going to get so much worse in the autumn. I for one know that I'll hear a cough every few minutes from teens who think it's funny and who will no doubt cough in each others faces, wipe their hands all over the place and overall use it as a bully tactic towards kids that have serious anxiety around this pandemic.

@SionnachRua

Our kids are allowed to go into the classroom to wait for the teacher...
So say I’m teaching lesson 2 In 6th form and lesson 3 in main school - a 10 min walk away, I’m likely to be late so the kid will be on their own then for at-least 5 Min... if that’s acceptable so is going for a wee! At some point 11-18 year olds need to take accountability for their actions

Men also have bladder issues!!

Most primary schools have been back with no issues, nurseries are back with no social distancing and seem not to have problems!

I think it's madness that a Secondary teacher, who can be in close contact with hundreds of different pupils in a week (a day really!) Cannot wear a mask. The majority of pupils in a secondary school should also manage it

Primary teachers are exposed to a lot less people. But if they feel they need protection, they should be allowed.

Maybe there should be fines for knowingly sending ill children to school. Hard to work out maybe... But could help with repeat offenders.

@Hercwasonaroll

Surely a 8 hour shift with a 20min break included is normal / short for an adult??? It certainly is in my profession

Do you then go home and do 3-4 more hours work in the evening? I thought not.

I originally made the point.

Yes it is legal to have only a 20 minute break for 6 hours worked but I assume in other professions you can use the toilet when needs be. I can’t due to leaving classes alone and the insurance implications this will have.

I am a menopausal woman. I am prone to flooding. I worry about not having a break from 8-12.40 thus not being able to change myself and save myself from embarrassment and hygiene implications.

Yes Lilmiss, in my year 6 class it was thought to be hilarious to "Coronacough" at a teacher or someone you don't like before lockdown. I don't imagine much will change. Or they'll sneeze in their hand and wipe it on someone's desk as that was also "hilarious". Which I will have to wipe down at break and lunchtime.

Our kids are allowed to go into the classroom to wait for the teacher...
So say I’m teaching lesson 2 In 6th form and lesson 3 in main school - a 10 min walk away, I’m likely to be late so the kid will be on their own then for at-least 5 Min... if that’s acceptable so is going for a wee! At some point 11-18 year olds need to take accountability for their actions

Oh I don't disagree, kids should exercise cop on and be accountable. However if something did happen and the children were unsupervised, the school could be liable. Not saying it is right.

Men also have bladder issues!!

I don't believe that I said men don't have bladder issues. Perhaps you could point me to it so that I can correct it?

However the policy does disproportionately affect menstruating and pregnant women so I would class it as discriminatory.

Most primary schools have been back with no issues, nurseries are back with no social distancing and seem not to have problems!

Are those teachers unable to take bathroom breaks during the day? If not, then I wouldn't say there are no issues.

I'm a paediatric nurse. We've had no problems with kids wearing masks where necessary. And not one single complaint about parents wearing them. The kids don't seem at all bothered by all staff wearing them either.

Mother - me too. I had got into the habit of buying 5 or 6 pairs of the same trousers and having spares in my bag because on some days my menopausal body can do a super plus tampon and pad in 15 minutes. I've had to change trousers before now by 10am. The prospect of my new day is profoundly worrying for me.

Bubbles at secodnary are such a joke.

My ds has a Saturday job in a shop. He travels to school on a train, and then they walk together up the hill to school. Pavement is narrow, they chat, so walk in pairs up the hill.
He wears a mask in the shop on Saturdays (but they certainlyaren't keeping good SD, the shop is tiny) He wears a mask on the train. He walks up to school (not good SD). But when he walks through the door into school he is somehow in a 'bubble' In a bubble with all the others from the train? all the people who came into the shop on Saturday? and with his 2 sisters in different year groups, and at a different school?

We should stop the pretense of bubbles.
I should also add that there are groups of teens hanging round in town with no SD and groups playing football together at the park. But as soon as they walk into school they are in a bubble?

Our behaviour policy was updated for the return of children on June 1st to reflect potential deliberate 'corona related' misbehaviour, and the difficulties of e.g. physical handling of a resisting child.

It escalates to internal isolation, and then 'call parent / member of the household to supervise', quite rapidly, to reflect the seriousness of the behaviour. Obviously if children have SEN that may result in e.g. a need for handling, or frequent spitting, then their care plans have been updated to reflect this and the adults caring for them given the full PPE required.

[quote OverTheRainbow88]@SionnachRua

Our kids are allowed to go into the classroom to wait for the teacher...
So say I’m teaching lesson 2 In 6th form and lesson 3 in main school - a 10 min walk away, I’m likely to be late so the kid will be on their own then for at-least 5 Min... if that’s acceptable so is going for a wee! At some point 11-18 year olds need to take accountability for their actions

Men also have bladder issues!!

Most primary schools have been back with no issues, nurseries are back with no social distancing and seem not to have problems![/quote]
The school I taught at whilst pregnant, we were not allowed to leave the classroom to go to the loo. While I was pregnant I had to have a risk assessment and I was given a radio to call SLT to cover me if I needed the loo. Never bothered - like most teachers I just didn't drink all day long and had trained my bladder to hold it in until 3.30.

Surely a 8 hour shift with a 20min break included is normal / short for an adult??? It certainly is in my profession

Are you prevented from going to the toilet for the whole 8 hours, except that 20 minute break?

That will force people to deliberately drink much less than normal so they don’t get caught out. That is not good for you to have to do that every single day.

Are those teachers unable to take bathroom breaks during the day?

At the moment, with only priority year groups in, in 15 pupil bubbles, we have 2 adults per bubble, who together cover the class from the moment they arrive on site to the moment they leave - this was deliberately planned to allow for toilet breaks, as we have no e.g. lunchtime supervisors or just a subset of teachers on break duty.

Next term I will have a 33 pupil class by myself for the majority of the week, but I think the same limitations will apply in terms of having to be with them for lunch and break. It's going to be interesting.....

With the face covering and the possible difficulty in teaching wouldn't it be better if the pupils just wore them than nothing?

@phlebasconsidered I think the new ‘normal’ in schools will affect women more than men. In my school we have 7 male members of staff ... we’re a secondary school. I can’t even count the females off the top of my head! Yet we have 5 female toilets for the whole staff, same as men so actually there are more male toilets then there are male members of staff!

It’ll be an interesting conversation to have when I ask to leave during the day as my legs are a bloody mess.

@SionnachRua

I guess I’m trying to look for solutions and not even more problems. At some point soon we must go back to school, we have a duty of care towards children and that cannot be fulfilled properly with them being at home and over zoom. I dread to think what lots of my students are going through at home.

My comment about nurseries not having issues I meant that more generally speaking in regards to not having huge outbreaks of Covid even without social distancing

I was a secondary school teacher until a few years ago, and I've watched all the school issues unfold with horror. I thank the heavens I don't teach anymore, and I've got so much sympathy for all the school staff out there who have been told to put themselves at risk, completely change the way they work, work longer hours than ever, work through holidays and bank holidays, clean the classrooms and toilets, all while the press and public berate them for being workshy.

@CallmeAngelina Whaaaat???? No WAY would I consent to being filmed teaching in my classroom and beamed out via Zoom
Thankfully during the last few few weeks my dd’s year 10 teachers put my dd and other shielding dc’s education first.
I do 100% support teachers wearing ppe .

@motherrunner

I'm not sure why you've quoted me, I didn't say I think 8-4 with a 20 min break is acceptable. It's deplorable.

I'm pointing out that it isn't just 8-4. It's 8-4 in the classroom plus 3-4 hours a day on top.

@AldiAisleofCrap I wouldn't consent to lessons going on zoom because they'd have other students in them. The tech infrastructure isn't there either. A pre recorded or even "live" zoom lesson I'd happily do. But I wouldn't be putting my classroom on zoom.

I guess I’m trying to look for solutions and not even more problems. At some point soon we must go back to school, we have a duty of care towards children and that cannot be fulfilled properly with them being at home and over zoom. I dread to think what lots of my students are going through at home.

I don't think being concerned about the impact on staff or supervision is looking for problems but to each her own.

I don't disagree that schools need to reopen but the Govt don't want to fund it properly. That's the core problem and while I think all school staff will do their best to make reopening go smoothly, situations like motherrunner (I think that was the name - sorry to that poster if I've mislabelled you) described shouldn't happen.