Asking too much of teachers?

[DomDoesWotHeWants]

It's looking like masks are going to be a requirement in shops and possibly other indoor venues.

Yet teachers are expected to teach - for hours at a time - in confined, poorly ventilated spaces, with no social distancing. They have been told they do not need PPE. If I was still teaching there is no way I'd go into a room crowded with teenagers and not wear a mask at the moment.

Teachers should be allowed as much protection as possible not thrown under a corona bus because Johnson wants them for child care so their parents can go back to work.

I really can't understand why it's going to be compulsory in shops where meetings are fleeting but not in schools which are crowded and have people crammed in for hours.

Does the right of children to go back to school over rule the rights of of school staff (teaching and ancillary) to be as protected as possible?

This means they should be allowed to wear PPE, if they choose, and secondary children should be wearing masks as happens in some other countries. In some countries younger children also have to wear masks in school.

The safety of teachers has been ignored by Johnson and his chums in their urge to get people back to work and the cry of "back to normal" is taken up by those ignorant of the facts about the virus.

Teachers have been made out to be the bad guys almost from the beginning - as can be seen from many bile infested threads on here. They deserve better.

I’ve been getting kids to pass exams for 15 years

State or private exams?

As who has been S/E and PAYE (but with redundancy threat) I can see that the two are different situations. Job security in teaching is highest and that will be lost.

Obviously if you are fine with that ok go for it. But I do know it’s a different mindset when I switch.

As someone

from the teaching I have seen over the years, there are plenty of people who can do just as good if not a better job!

There simply aren't. Maths and Sciences are always very short on qualified teachers. Before all this hit the government were paying the equivalent of 30k before tax to recruit new very shortage areas and similar smaller amounts to other shortage subjects.

The result of this was that we got more trainees but the extra ones are crap. They ether don't pass or, worse, get waved through by overworked staff who don't have time to fix the problem.

Teaching takes a long time to get good at. It's not just people skills, it's detailed subject knowlege, understanding of pedagogy, managing very challening behaviour and a deep grasp of how metacognition relates to learning.

To run a good school you don't just need good teaching you need structures and systems which support learning. That takes a lot of time, expertise and collective effort. You can't just lose experienced staff and expect things to carry on as they were.

State or private exams?

The exams are the same (assuming GCSE/A Level) unless private doing IGCSE in which case they can be slightly different.

The more you post the pros the more yes go for it.

The exams are the same (assuming GCSE/A Level) unless private doing IGCSE in which case they can be slightly different

I mean passing to 11 plus or other entry points to private school.

Or grammar entry. Both big markets

@Ouchjuststoodonlego @Natalie654321

Same situation here. Ordinarily, I am the sort of teacher that does just suck it up and get on with it. This would usually be my approach to September as I am fairly young and healthy and so feel the risks to me are fairly low. I would do what I could within the policies of the school to try to maintain a working environment that was as safe as possible.

However, I will also be in my final trimester in September and this changes how I feel as I need to protect my unborn baby. I have been in school throughout the crisis as my midwife said it was fine to be in with the conditions in place in my school; groups no bigger than 10, classrooms cleaned between each session etc. However she also said, if you were in your third trimester this would be a different conversation as the risks are much higher. She was referring to the maximum 10 per groups situation. So in September I’ll be with my groups of 36. I would feel so much happier if I were able to wear a visor. It’s not a perfect solution but anything I can do within my power that will offer some sort of extra protection for my baby seems reasonable to me.

do however think that other options are incredibly limited at the moment

You are correct, of course. But teachers are people with individual situations and options. I could afford to resign and not work for about 5 years due to an inheritance. So I resigned. I know of two others who have enough time served to take their pensions - teachers who would have given it more years but who felt their needs as older people were ignored so they’ve retired. I know of 3 others where one partner earns well and feels secure enough in their industry to facilitate the other not needing to work for a while. 2 Others are taking the full year on maternity when they would have been back earlier. A younger shielding teacher has simply resigned and returned to his parent’s home.

That’s in one school. Might be your children’s school. I can only presume other schools are similar. There is already a retention crisis and recruitment targets haven’t been met for years. I am sure imepending recession will help with recruitment but schools are already filled with young staff who lack experience and the real experience is walking away. You can scoff all you want but the bigger picture is very worrying if you want your children to have a quality education overseen by qualified, experienced professionals.

@Whitestick

I don't understand the idea that there isn't enough money to pay cleaners, but there is enough money to pay a teacher's wage to clean. Teachers get paid a lot more than cleaners. If I were cleaning for half an hour that's half an hour less of teaching I can do, and I'm being paid more for that half hour than any cleaner.

Teachers are expected to do the cleaning for free, on top of their teaching responsibilities.

Not sure why the govt doesn't just ask all working parents to come into school for an hour or two after their day at work to clean the toilets, classrooms, equipment, kitchens, dining hall etc for the next day. All these parents frothing at the mouth about teachers having to suck it up, do their bit, stop whining and think of the children. I'm sure their local school will be grateful for a couple of your unpaid hours each day.

There's an insinuation that teachers who don't want to put their life at significant risk don't care about the children they teach. I have always cared deeply about the children I taught. I would spend 5 days a week with them for years. I'm pretty sure I'd risk my life if their lives were in danger. But I won't risk my life because the government are incompetent or won't properly resource COVID security in schools.

MrsR87 how soon could you just start your maternity leave?

There's an insinuation that teachers who don't want to put their life at significant risk don't care about the children they teach. I have always cared deeply about the children I taught. I would spend 5 days a week with them for years. I'm pretty sure I'd risk my life if their lives were in danger. But I won't risk my life because the government are incompetent or won't properly resource COVID security in schools

For me it’s more simple: My children love and need me alive and well. They are more important than other people’s children. For too long they have come second best, long hours in childcare whilst I coach and chase and cajole the reluctant into passing exams. No more,and frankly, even if they vaccinate me before September, never again. I am not going back.

Absolutely @MrsR87

If it was me at risk, I would probably just get on with it and not rock the boat. But it's not me that I am worried for.
We have a new Headteacher too and I am worried about rocking the boat so am not sure what to do. The emails that I have received make it obvious that I am expected back in and in full capacity in September and that there will be no ppe and no expectation of SD within our bubble of 2 classes. (60 odd kids)

I don't think that it's fair to expect us to start maternity early, as I have seen suggested on here but am quite uncomfortable at taking this risk with my child.

Thing is, the people saying ‘teachers should just quit if they are not happy’ are then saying ‘you can’t quit though because recession’.

You can’t scare maths teachers into not quitting by saying they don’t have other options (not true) or that you don’t mind if they quit as they can be easily replaced (laughably not true).

There is a critical shortage of maths teachers. The ones that are still in the job MUST be retained. The only way you can do that is by treating them well enough that they want to stay. And because all teachers are hired on the same conditions, this means you need to treat all teachers well.

Noble we can’t do much from here though can we? All I can do is write to PM and give my own experience of going from complete job security to S/E. If you still want to make the move then it’s up to you. Not trying to scare you or underestimating impact.

But I’d much prefer schools implement what MumTum’s school has. If there is anyway for teachers / governing bodies to influence this then I’d hope they would.

Teaching in primary and secondary schools isn't a highly specialised subject as some on here make it out to be

You’re right, any idiot can teach. You can teach music if you’ve never picked up a musical instrument. Teach French is you’ve only ever lived in a small village in Surrey. Teach English literature if you’ve watched the film of the book on Netflix. Teach history having never been inside a museum and teach art when you’ve never owned so much as a colouring book.

Get yourself prepared for even fewer specialists teaching maths, physics, chemistry and MFL in secondary than ever before...can’t be anything other than great for our education system, can it?

[quote openplankitchen]@noblegiraffe it's ok. If lots of teachers expected to resign then work as tutors I'm sure the government would intervene. It won't happen. [/quote]
You think the government would pull the national tutoring scheme to stop unhappy teachers resigning?

@Appuskidu

No. But I absolutely think they wouldn't allow the positions to be filled with and encouraging teachers to resign. So if that meant pulling it they would

Marsha like I said I have two ex-colleagues who have done it so plenty of support available.

But I want to stay in teaching. So yes, please write to your MP and say you are worried on hearing that teachers are considering their options and that the situation was already critical before this crisis.

I’ll be writing to mine later to ask why teachers are expected to work in conditions that do not meet their own guidelines and ask why I shouldn’t resign over this.

@Howaboutanewname

There's an insinuation that teachers who don't want to put their life at significant risk don't care about the children they teach. I have always cared deeply about the children I taught. I would spend 5 days a week with them for years. I'm pretty sure I'd risk my life if their lives were in danger. But I won't risk my life because the government are incompetent or won't properly resource COVID security in schools

For me it’s more simple: My children love and need me alive and well. They are more important than other people’s children. For too long they have come second best, long hours in childcare whilst I coach and chase and cajole the reluctant into passing exams. No more,and frankly, even if they vaccinate me before September, never again. I am not going back.

I don't even blame you.

@Aworldofmyown

"Teachers should be allowed as much protection as possible not thrown under a corona bus because Johnson wants them for child care so their parents can go back to work."

Whilst I would hope that teachers will be able to wear visors, this is not the reason children should be going back to school.

I don’t see why teachers can’t use visors tbh.

However like everyone else if a teacher does not want to go back to work they should leave rather than making it difficult for every one else. You can’t expect to still get paid for not going in work.

Noble I already have written, first time but it’s irritating. I want teachers to stay in teaching too and it’s making me feel frustrated for a seemingly simple solution (MumTum’s) not to be more widely implemented.

First time I have written to my MP I mean.

I hope those writing to MP about working conditions for teachers are also writing about factories and farms. Where there actually have been outbreaks