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Asking too much of teachers?

889 replies

DomDoesWotHeWants · 11/07/2020 10:29

It's looking like masks are going to be a requirement in shops and possibly other indoor venues.

Yet teachers are expected to teach - for hours at a time - in confined, poorly ventilated spaces, with no social distancing. They have been told they do not need PPE. If I was still teaching there is no way I'd go into a room crowded with teenagers and not wear a mask at the moment.

Teachers should be allowed as much protection as possible not thrown under a corona bus because Johnson wants them for child care so their parents can go back to work.

I really can't understand why it's going to be compulsory in shops where meetings are fleeting but not in schools which are crowded and have people crammed in for hours.

Does the right of children to go back to school over rule the rights of of school staff (teaching and ancillary) to be as protected as possible?

This means they should be allowed to wear PPE, if they choose, and secondary children should be wearing masks as happens in some other countries. In some countries younger children also have to wear masks in school.

The safety of teachers has been ignored by Johnson and his chums in their urge to get people back to work and the cry of "back to normal" is taken up by those ignorant of the facts about the virus.

Teachers have been made out to be the bad guys almost from the beginning - as can be seen from many bile infested threads on here. They deserve better.

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Danglingmod · 12/07/2020 09:12

But if you're talking cleaning classrooms in between lessons, that can't be done by a cleaner, and has to be done by a teacher/TA/the students. You can't have a fleet of cleaners employed for five minutes per hour only, all waiting in corridors to dive in and clean for five minutes.

Whitestick · 12/07/2020 09:15

No I'm talking cleaning toilets.

Danglingmod · 12/07/2020 09:18

Oh, well, I don't think toilets are getting cleaned by teachers in most secondary schools because we're permanently either teaching or on duty. We're expected to clean classrooms in between each lesson.

Expecting primary teachers to clean them is wrong but probably easier/expected because they're near each classroom rather than half a mile away!

Hercwasonaroll · 12/07/2020 09:22

I'll be wiping down desks between lessons. Because there won't be anyone else and I don't want risk my colleagues.

Hibbetyhob · 12/07/2020 09:26

@Whitestick

I don't understand the idea that there isn't enough money to pay cleaners, but there is enough money to pay a teacher's wage to clean. Confused Teachers get paid a lot more than cleaners. If I were cleaning for half an hour that's half an hour less of teaching I can do, and I'm being paid more for that half hour than any cleaner.
@Whitestick but teachers won’t be paid extra for doing the cleaning. They’ll be expected to do it in their lunch break, or at the same time as teaching, or after school.

Where teachers are being asked to clean it’s not instead of their teaching time. It is as well as.

Whitestick · 12/07/2020 09:28

Hibbetyhop I've answered this in my follow up post.
You must have heard the idea that whenever you're asked to do an additional thing, you ask which thing you're currently doing will have to stop - this is no different.

SimonJT · 12/07/2020 09:30

@Whitestick

I don't understand the idea that there isn't enough money to pay cleaners, but there is enough money to pay a teacher's wage to clean. Confused Teachers get paid a lot more than cleaners. If I were cleaning for half an hour that's half an hour less of teaching I can do, and I'm being paid more for that half hour than any cleaner.
The teachers at my sons primary school are cleaning during their unpaid break. You have failed to understand that it won’t reduce teaching hours as it will be done when children are not in the classroom/after school as an additional unpaid responsibility.

Ideally any teacher being asked to clean beyond basic desk/door handle cleans between classes should rightfully tell the school exactly where to stuff their duster.

Kitcat122 · 12/07/2020 09:32

'In my school the TAs do the cleaning for their bubble, not the toilets. I clean all the equipment, toys and resources at the end of the day. I am finishing later than I get paid. I can only see this being worse in September when I'm cleaning for 30 instead of 15.

BooseysMom · 12/07/2020 09:32

Why bother to cancel Glastonbury or report illegal raves of 200 people if it’s fine for 1500 kids and 200 staff to cram into a building for six hours a day after travelling in from multiple counties? Why ban visitors to care homes? Why not treat people in hospital who were due to be seen months ago?

Bloody excellent point! Based on mostly everything I have read on this thread, I really think it is not going to be safe for schools to re-open in Sept at full capacity until there's a vaccine.

hedgehogger1 · 12/07/2020 09:32

I'm going to be teaching in 5 bubbles of over 300 kids in sept. I'm clinically vulnerable and have had pneumonia just from a cold in the past. The school is not having staggered starts or ends as almost all Our kids come on buses. There's no plans for kids to be in anyway distant from staff as they "expect that guidance to be gone in September".

Whitestick · 12/07/2020 09:35

As about three posters have made the same comment to me I will re-explain what I mean! I have not, so far, been asked to clean toilets. If I am, I would ask what part of my current workload will be dropped to give me the time to do this new duty. I will not be adding extra time to my week on a voluntary basis, as I work long enough hours already.
So if they insisted I clean it would be instead of the same amount of marking/course development/admin or whatever. Hence I would be being paid a teacher's wage for the time I'm spending cleaning toilets.
but I won't be cleaning toilets

noblegiraffe · 12/07/2020 09:35

I'll be wiping down desks between lessons.

I won’t be, because from looking at my timetable I’m going to be hightailing it off to another classroom. And any travelling teacher knows that packing up one classroom, getting to and setting up in another one already eats badly into lesson time while your class goes bonkers. Keep them out in the corridor while I nip round with the dettol? No.

Hercwasonaroll · 12/07/2020 09:44

Noble least you have a timetable. I'll be doing a wiped own while the kids pack away.

AnIckabog · 12/07/2020 09:44

@hedgehogger1 same here. I'm hospitalised with pneumonia from a cold most winters. (My school are very good about this and my Head couldn't believe I didn't qualify for the shielding category). It's insane that we are expected back in the Autumn as cases rise with no social distancing, 180 different children a day and no protection. Collateral damage for childcare.

finished31 · 12/07/2020 09:44

What provisions if any are made for children who are shielding or their family?

DS will be in Y10. He has asthma and I've had a organ transplant. It worries me reading all these posts from teachers (not your fault) at what is NOT in place to protect them and children.

I hate that this seems the only profession we're no one gives a shit about anyone's wellbeing.

Hercwasonaroll · 12/07/2020 09:46

Done the nomad teacher plenty of years. It's not that bad really. If you accept the first few mins are a write off!!

TheSultanofPingu · 12/07/2020 09:47

It's a difficult one where cleaning is concerned. Cleaners are usually employed for a couple of hours a day. Imagine how much extra it would cost for them to be available throughout. Where I work usually ta's and sometimes teachers spray the flush, door handles, seat and sinks when a child has used them. Not a full on toilet clean, but admittedly not in their job description.

Freddiefox · 12/07/2020 09:47

@SamsMumsCateracts

Please also spare a thought for those of us working in nursery settings. We get covered in a disgusting amount of bodily fluids in a day, working with different children each day, so our bubble is effectively huge, and our 7.30 to 6.30 day has been extended to 7am to 8pm just so that we can fit the extra cleaning in. We don't have cleaners, the entire place is cleaned by practitioners, even in normal times. We are only allowed to wear an apron and gloves when changing nappies or dealing with toileting, no other PPE at all. No social distancing. We are hugely at risk and only get paid minimum wage for the privilege. I adore my job and the children, but with myself and my child having health issues, the risk is very worrying.
Hi, I got absolutely pilled on on another thread (maybe it will happen again) but my staff at nursery have been wearing masks. The children aren’t scared or frightened to come in and the staff feel better protected and the children are protected too.
DomDoesWotHeWants · 12/07/2020 09:49

@Danglingmod

But if you're talking cleaning classrooms in between lessons, that can't be done by a cleaner, and has to be done by a teacher/TA/the students. You can't have a fleet of cleaners employed for five minutes per hour only, all waiting in corridors to dive in and clean for five minutes.
has to be done by a teacher

I don't think so. Not our job. How many times does it need to be said?

I really hope teachers say fuck off to heads who tell them to clean. Not their job.

A few school closure will concentrate Johnson's mind. No cleaners? No pupils.

Time for the unions to flex their muscles.

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motherrunner · 12/07/2020 09:50

@Hercwasonaroll

Done the nomad teacher plenty of years. It's not that bad really. If you accept the first few mins are a write off!!
My classroom (well pre-Covid) is in a far corner of my school. Some classes (ie Yr 11) would rarely rush themselves to get from their previous class to me and would often wander in 5 minutes into class. Looks like that’ll be me now!
Hercwasonaroll · 12/07/2020 09:58

Yep mother that's what happens.
My advice is leave their books in the room. Drop off resources in the morning if allowed. Take lunch that requires no heating (thermos flask soup etc). Take bare minimum equipment, pen and board pen/visualiser. Date and title and quick do now on white board while you log on.

You and the kids will soon settle into it.

Walkaround · 12/07/2020 10:04

Government should provide extra funding for the extra cleaning costs in schools. Schools thought it would do for a while, then it backtracked and said it would only cover cleaning costs resulting from diagnosed covid 19 cases, not from trying to avoid covid 19 spreading in the first place!!!

Whitestick · 12/07/2020 10:04

Herc I'm not sure if you're just been positive, or minimising the impact.

Walkaround · 12/07/2020 10:04

Not that extra funding would materialise thousands of extra, affordable cleaning staff for schools...

DomDoesWotHeWants · 12/07/2020 10:09

@Walkaround

Not that extra funding would materialise thousands of extra, affordable cleaning staff for schools...
Maybe it would if it was a choice of closing the schools or stumping up the cash.
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