'Go back to work if you can' - any idea what Boris means by this??

[labyrinthloafer]

So today the PM said people should go back to work if they can, rather than stay at home if they can.

But if people can do their jobs from home, why would this be a good idea in amongst all the other things opening up?

I feel so drained at the moment, have got into a very decent homeworking situation, now potentially disrupted, and then all winter it'll be 'oh Sue's coughing, has she had a test' and then people going home while they wait for results.

I suppose my question is - do you think this is just rhetoric or will the home working now start to change?

@annabel85

Noisy, cramped, claustrophobic

So are open plan offices.

Yes, it's perfectly possible for someone who lives in a shitty cramped studio to also have a horrible workplace! Let's not assume someone who prefers working from home isn't choosing the lesser of two evils.

Well Matt Hancock was quite clear he wanted people to keep WFH even after Covid, in fact he was talking about changes to the law to enable more WFH

Yes but what he is referring to is a shift in long term culture, where employees have the option. Right now, we do not have an option - we can only choose to WFH... even if we want to go back to an office.
I was 50/50 WFH and working in an office before CV19... I would like to have that option again!

Let's not assume someone who prefers working from home isn't choosing the lesser of two evils.

Surveys show most people prefer working from home than in some germ ridden, noisy office with everyone cramped together for 8 hours a day.

Most people don't actually like working in cramped offices and most people hate the commute even more. It's a job at the end of the day and we all need to make a living. Longer term it's probably better to go in 1-3 days a week so it's more split, but until such time that it's safe for me to go to a concert, watch live sport, or watch a band play in my local then people should be working from home where possible.

I miss the social life of work. Chitchat & gossip.
It doesn't matter right now because I don't want to be put on house arrest, so I have high incentive to do very minimal social contact for time being.
However, when we are no longer quarantined for having c19 symptoms -- I will be glad to go back to office & public transport just for the social contact, really.

@annabel85

Let's not assume someone who prefers working from home isn't choosing the lesser of two evils.

Surveys show most people prefer working from home than in some germ ridden, noisy office with everyone cramped together for 8 hours a day.

Most people don't actually like working in cramped offices and most people hate the commute even more. It's a job at the end of the day and we all need to make a living. Longer term it's probably better to go in 1-3 days a week so it's more split, but until such time that it's safe for me to go to a concert, watch live sport, or watch a band play in my local then people should be working from home where possible.

You know I wasn't disagreeing with you?

If the economy is completely dependent on people buying sandwiches and coffee, then it was built on sand in the first place...

Absolutely this! How depressing that our economy is supposedly dependent on this. Where's the innovation and technology?

You know I wasn't disagreeing with you?

Yes I do. I'm not dense

Businesses who have found WFH works and also saves them rent, utilities, insurance etc
won't reverse this just because Boris wants them to save the economy

Yes, individual businesses will make their own minds up, for the good of their business and their employees. People don't have to ask 'how high' just because Boris says 'jump'.

OP I don't even think Boris knows what he says. He makes no sense. At all.

@AKissAndASmile

If the economy is completely dependent on people buying sandwiches and coffee, then it was built on sand in the first place...

Absolutely this! How depressing that our economy is supposedly dependent on this. Where's the innovation and technology?

We're going to have to adapt in the future anyway. Automation, working from home, climate change etc etc. This health crisis just accelerates the need to adapt to change.

The best way to make town and city centres flourish is to have more widespread city centre living as that's how businesses will thrive there in the long run.

Relying on office workers is why the high street is dead anyway beyond the likes of Pret and Greggs

It's a good idea because the government had to scare us so much to get us to comply with lockdown. They are now having to physically tell us to get on with our lives now as too many people are scared to do so. It's not good for our mental health and Boris knows this!

I’m hopefully never working in an office again. This will be quite literally the only good thing to come out of this crisis. I was already wfh 4 days and I think I’ve comprehensively proved there is no need for me to go in. Don’t mind appearing for the odd meeting. Not so much because of Covid but I don’t see the point of the expense and time of travelling in (2 hours for me each way). Plus I am healthier as I run at lunch etc.

Interesting point up thread about wfh reviving local high streets - I spend money usually locally when I wfh and fancy a wander in my lunch break .

My work have actually said they may make the office more for meetings rather than a general workplace .

I’ve been very surprised how many colleagues have struggled with wfh. I really thought everyone would be - yay- but clearly it’s not for everyone. Perhaps I’m of an age where the workplace is not where my life is anymore.

@Forgone90

It's a good idea because the government had to scare us so much to get us to comply with lockdown. They are now having to physically tell us to get on with our lives now as too many people are scared to do so. It's not good for our mental health and Boris knows this!

Newsflash: Boris doesn't give one shit about your mental health.

He just wants you spending all your money and paying taxes (which obviously the economy needs more of).

A lot depends on your living arrangements whether wfh is good or bad, long term working on the kitchen or dining room table doesn’t sound good but if you have a spare room or office then it’s probably all good. DH uses the spare room for work as he has a lot of calls so it would not be good if he was in the main living rooms of the house.

As a single parent I’d also say that a move to wfh is very equalising career wise and liberating stress wise. I’ve had to turn down many jobs because they wouldn’t even allow one day wfh and I’ve give up the career ladder as a result. It’s not just a benefit for the privileged . If I’d been able to wfh 5 years ago my career would be in a very different place now.

@Forgone90

It's a good idea because the government had to scare us so much to get us to comply with lockdown. They are now having to physically tell us to get on with our lives now as too many people are scared to do so. It's not good for our mental health and Boris knows this!

I am not convinced Boris knows anything

Be interesting to see what happens with HS2 if most companies switch to home working... surely we won’t need a high speed rail network to connect the major cities if nobody has to travel for work??

I am anxious about returning to my central London office.

I'm have difficult to control asthma and cannot wear a mask on crowded London transport, I can only wear one for short periods (5 mins) as it affects my breathing. I also have POTS and so faint easily and feel faint with a mask on. I'm worried I will be challenged for not wearing a mask.

I cannot avoid the train into London to get to work if called back. My office is a good 20 min walk from the station I arrive at. I have disabilities which affect my mobility so on some days I will need to catch a bus or the tube to get to and from the office rather than walk.

I'm worried about catching the virus as I narrowly missed the original shielding criteria for asthma. We have been very careful and haven't been to any shops etc. since 15 March. All food and medicine has been delivered.

My employer has said those who are clinically vulnerable will come back to work later than everyone else, and those extremely clinically vulnerable (aka those shielding until it ends next month) even later. So hopefully I won't be asked back for a while!

interesting.
it seems like a vast majority of MN work from home.

I imagine it will create quite a vivid class divide if we continue in this vein - the 'peasant' class will stay in cramped working conditions, meat factories, clothes factories, supermarkets, etc.

I wonder how this will pan out long term.
there is evidently no solution for those who can't work from home.
they go under the bus then?

I say this as someone who has worked from home for 15 years.

@AKissAndASmile

If the economy is completely dependent on people buying sandwiches and coffee, then it was built on sand in the first place...

Absolutely this! How depressing that our economy is supposedly dependent on this. Where's the innovation and technology?

do try to remember that those sandwiches and coffee kept people in work and paying rent/mortgages.

for society to move forward FAIRLY it would be vital to consider everyone's place in it.

or is this sector just shoved onto the dole becoming tomorrows scrounging scapegoats?

and most 'innovation and technology' is offshore I guess.

better jobs for all would be the solution. Leisure, tech, etc. But with accessible training and education for poorer kids and young people.

I'm not wasting time and money going into London just to keep Pret a Manger going. Anyway I don't think my occasional chicken and avocado sandwich will make a lot of difference.

Interestingly though, everything has been about offices downsizing and having less space because they realise people will WFH much more. But I saw on LinkedIn over the weekend a post by someone who is investing in more office space so they can have everyone in but suitably spaced out. I hadn't thought of employers investing in more office space but I suppose if they and their workforce want to be in the office it makes sense. I don't think they were in London so the commuting by public transport isn't as much of an issue.

I’ve been very surprised how many colleagues have struggled with wfh. I really thought everyone would be - yay- but clearly it’s not for everyone

My mum said she would have hated it, she loved being in the office and working with people. But most of my dislike of going into the office is around the cost and time of the commute, if I had a 10 minute walk or drive to work I'd probably feel differently. That said, I don't like having to stay in an office until the dot of 5.30 when I've nothing to do - but I guess working in an office doesn't preclude flexible hours.

If city centre Pret and Starbucks etc were to all but disappear so be it. So much money is wasted on those type of overpriced things.

I agree with PPs who have said we need to bring back more resi into city centres so they aren’t just a place people commute to (and solves housing shortages)

We never needed HS2 anyway.

I would settle for a compromise of going in 1 or maybe 2 days a week, when my workload required face-to-face contact (this requirement changes throughout the year), but no more than that. Thankfully my bosses have already said that we are never going back to the way things were pre-Covid. All meetings will be required to have a Teams link so you can join remotely if you'd prefer. Our current office is likely closing and we are moving to a smaller site where access will probably be on a bookable basis and only when strictly necessary. We've proved we can be productive and collegial even when everyone is WFH.

Having said all of that, I do agree that for some people WFH is far from ideal and provision should be made for them to have safe office space if they need it. My colleagues tend to be mid- or late-career so more settled and this is less of an issue, but it must be a nightmare if you live in a shared house etc.

But am I going back to a 90-min commute on packed trains and tubes just to keep bloody Costa going? No fucking way. I'll amble round to my local independent coffee shop at lunchtime instead.