What have others done about paying their childminder’s fees?

[Thisgroupneverceasestoamazeme]

I’m feeling a bit awkward about it all. When they announced they had to close (including to key workers children, we’re both key workers but have supportive employers so have managed to WFH and tag team childcare) I asked about fees and was told that they’re asking that people who are on full pay continue to pay until they know how the government would be supporting self employed people. Didn’t hear anything so we paid full fees until the portal opened for people to apply for the self employment support, and then when we contacted the childminder about it she agreed for us to stop paying. I assumed we’d be refunded the difference once she’d received payment from the government or it would be offset against fees once they reopen this month. (We had a conversation from which I took away that this was the plan but when I messaged to confirm last week she said she didn’t remember the conversation) I’m happy to top up to make it up to full pay for her but I’m not happy at the thought of paying out well over a grand while we actually had to A) do the job we were still paying her for as well as work full time and B) pay out for more food and nappies when they were included in the fees, so we’ve essentially paid for them twice! We’re not massively high earners so childcare makes a pretty big dent in our income.

They’re nice people so I’m sure they’re not trying to rip us off but it does feel like a p*ss take. I had to bring it up when they closed, then again once the government started taking applications for the self employment support and now I’ve had to raise it again and she’s said she’ll get back to me. It’s making me feel like I’m being a money grabbing tight wad! I’m starting to wonder if maybe I am? I’m a first time mum and our child had only attended for 6 weeks when they closed so I’m not sure I’m maybe I’m being unreasonable or not!

Any thoughts?

@DisaronnoConnoisseur that seems reasonable... Id actually called to ask if she wanted us to continue to pay a percentage of our fees to tide her over as had assumed she’d stop charging when she said she was asking everyone to continue paying in full until she knew what was happening with SEISS

Our childminder paused contracts and if a family was sheilding and couldn't send their child in she didn't invoice them. I'm grateful for the fact that didn't charge us during lockdown and as a result we've decided to send LO in for an extra day come August. We have also put some money in a card for her as a thank you.

We continued to pay our childminder in full as our salaries remained unchanged.

Doing so has had zero impact on me (well except that she is now happy to have our dc any time we need at all because she really appreciated what we did) but made a massive difference to her, especially at the beginning when things were so uncertain, and given a lot of her clients were unable to pay / chose to stop paying, I reckon our full fees will have topped her up to near 100% of her usual income.

It’s just luck my job is secure and I have my income. I wanted to pass that on where I could (so for me that was paying our childminder & cleaner).

We have a long-standing relationship with her and she looks after my most precious things. I actually struggle to understand why, if still on full salary, one would choose not to continue paying where possible.

Absolutely, if it wasn’t having an impact on us financially and we were comfortably able to pay then we’d be happy to. I’d count myself very lucky to be in such a comfortable position. I’d just returned to work having had 6 months on SMP so it is a pretty big dent in our income and money is very tight. That’s not her fault and we’d be paying it anyway but we’d be receiving a service. Another way to look at it is if she’s been able to claim government support (and we’ve offered to top up the 20% so she’s in full pay) then it doesn’t seem very fair for us to be out of pocket with a very stretched budget and her to be charging in full AND receiving an 80% top up

I pay monthly and had already paid March even though I hadn't used her from mid March. On April 1st I was told all staff who were not furloughed would have to take a pay cut of 15% so I messaged asking what her expectations were. She never responded. Until that point I had expected to continue but as I was having a paycut I wanted to request the same cut to her. I had researched online and it was clear, if a service is not being provided you are not expected to pay. Other parents who are invoiced each month stopped receiving invoices. I stopped payment and hadn't heard from her until she commented on a Facebook post that I also had saying how she couldn't wait to have DC back.

I think your Childminder has pulled a fast one. Simply because she says she forgot the conversation. I wouldn't trust her after that and would move.

@DonaldJTrumpet yes, I think that’s what’s niggling at me; that she’s not being completely upfront. I’m just not sure how easy it will be to find somewhere new that we’ve visited properly and really got a good feel for with social distancing being in place. I’m going to give her a call tomorrow.

As I understand it, if she is claiming furlough then she shouldn’t be receiving extra money from parents?

What else is she not being upfront about?!

I assume your child is quite young too if you haven't long finished SMP. It's so much harder at that point to ensure they are happy. At least mine can (and do) tell me that they are unhappy or something happened.

Not a nice position for you to be in.

@DonaldJTrumpet exactly...our child is only 17 months old and has some additional medical needs and developmental issues too. They really ‘clicked’ with the childminder and absolutely adore her. Aside from the money thing she’s been great at keeping in touch over lockdown, sending video messages and photos so that our LO doesn’t have such a shock to the system when they go back. She’s just been terrible at keeping us up to date on any of the ‘grown up’ business side of it

@Redhair23 that’s the bit that’s not clear. I’m not sure if she’s applied for the SEISS or entitled to it

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-financial-support-for-education-early-years-and-childrens-social-care/coronavirus-covid-19-financial-support-for-education-early-years-and-childrens-social-care

Here is the Gov link for what can be claimed. By these providers

You will need to look up frustrated contracts. If you haven't paid the contract may be void

I'm a Cm. All my earnings are declared but my seiss payment was approx 30% of my monthly earnings.
Also, self-employed people do not have the same restrictions as furloughed wrt earning money.
Personally, I didn't charge my families while I was unavailable, for several reasons but I do know a significant number of childminders did and I feel their reasons for doing so we're perfectly legitimate.
Also, fwiw, I have spent around £2,500 so far on equipment and resources to comply with government guidance.

@Clutterfreeintraining that’s really useful information, thank you. I feel like a stuck record so apologies but I’m happy to pay what’s fair, it’s just that I’ve had no information to be able discuss what’s fair with her. If you don’t mind me asking, how was this shared/agreed with your families? Is the extra equipment you’ve paid out for stuff that can be claimed as expenses on your tax return?

@Theyweretheworstoftimes our contract says that if they close we don’t pay. At the same time I expect they were thinking of a day or two for sickness or for when they go on holiday when they put the contract together!

I get you OP, you're being very 'nice', but basically you're rightly pissed off.

Pissed off, because you think at best she's receiving a full wage from you, at the very least she she reduce this to take into account, nappies, wipes, milk and utilities. At worst, she's pulling a fast one, receiving government support AND full wages from you.

You suspect she is being a bit of a twat, but as soon as you voice that then everyone will jump on you and say you should trust your childminder implicitly- making you feel shit for doubting her!!

Am I right? Because that's how I would feel 😆

@FabulouslyGlamourousFerret that’s a perfect summary. Thank you! It doesn’t help that she’d only been looking after our child for 6 weeks when lockdown happened so we’ve only received a service for 1/3 of the time we’ve been paying her and we haven’t had chance to build up a relationship with her that other parents might have. Don’t get me wrong, she’s been wonderful with our child and I have every faith in her care of them. I doubt that in reality she’s pulling a fast one, but I suspect she’s keeping quiet and hoping that we just don’t bring it up. On one hand this is a business transaction so I shouldn’t feel uncomfortable discussing it with her but, on other hand her reluctance to is making it awkward and making me feel like the bad guy and I do want to keep a good relationship going.

I'm glad I wasn't way off the mark 🤣

I haven't got any advice as I have always used nurseries for my Dc, even from babies (It was only part time though)

I didn't use CM for this very reason, naturally you build a relationship with a CM, which for me (and you by the sounds of it) makes it really, really tricky to address any issues.

Exactly, a CM works best for our child due to their health and development needs but not so well for the things you mentioned! You wouldn’t think my job involves a lot of direct challenge of people but it does!! For all the reasons mentioned above...summed up by emotional investment in this instance I guess, i don’t seem to be able to apply my skills in this situation!

To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I've communicated very well with my families either. I sent a couple of group messages back in March, as and when the guidance changed and then all of a sudden it was June and there was talk of us being able to reopen to non-key worker children.
Childminders pick and choose their own terms and conditions wrt fees so it'd be difficult to get an idea of what is the norm.
I can absolutely see your POV. Was your Cm open to children of key workers? I know some were still charging these parents if they were still open even if the children didn't attend. I also know some who closed to all and charged a % of fees to retain the space.
Yes, all purchases will be put through my books but considering I only had 2 of my 16 children for 2 months, I could have done without the expense at this point.
Did you pay full fees for the two months and then nothing since? Has your dc started back yet?

@Clutterfreeintraining, Thanks for your reply

No they didn’t stay open for key workers children. Me and DH are both key workers too so it’s been an a bit of a nightmare trying to work full time and manage childcare. (As it has for many parents across the UK) Luckily our employers are relatively supportive. Yes, that’s right, we paid full fees for 8 weeks and haven’t paid since and they haven’t reopened yet. Due to our child’s additional needs, finding a new/temporary childcare setting wasn’t an option either. I don’t know anyone else who uses a childminder which is why I wasn’t sure if this is what everyone else has been doing or not. I wanted to make sure that I wasn’t being completely unreasonable or unrealistic before I discuss it with her.

I haven't charged for any of the time I have been closed. My families are due to return in September and at the moment I have no idea if I will be able to provide the wrap around service that they need because the school may block this. I have stayed in touch with them, sending resources, videos etc.
I did recieve the self employment grany but it was a very small percentage of what I earn. Not because I had been pulling a fast one and not declaring my full income but because two of the three qualifying years included periods of maternity leave.

Have a conversation with the CM and then email her with what you have discussed and agreed so you have a record of it. She should also give you a new contract as most are now void.

Thank you for your reply (love your username BTW!)

I don’t necessarily think she’s pulling a fast one, I just don’t know what her position is and she seems reluctant to discuss it. I guess there could be any number of reasons and I suspect the most likely one is she feels awkward too and is hoping I won’t push the issue. It seems the general consensus on here is that most childminders have either reduced fees or stopped charging entirely so it would be reasonable for me to request either a partial refund or discount going forward so long as she’s managed to cover her expenses (without it being at our expense IYSWIM!)

I'm a childminder and I haven't charged for the time I've been closed. The children's parents had all offered to pay half fees for the duration but I declined, it didn't seem right to take money from them.

@beanosaurus, thanks for your reply. Like your customers I’d be willing to pay a percentage. I think i just feel annoyed that it’s been assumed that we’ll all continue to pay full whack with no proper communication or acknowledgement that it’s a huge ask and the complete opposite of what the contract says

I wonder if 'working' and 'earning' mean the same thing under the self employed furlough scheme or not. I don't know all the in's and out's as it's not relevant to me but if for example the government payment for SE didn't allow someone to work whilst claiming did it also mean they couldn't earn? If she has claimed the payment and you have paid her, depending on the above she could be breaking the law.

In your position I would probably send her an email saying that as someone who is self employed you are assuming she has been able to claim the government grant and if for whatever reason that isn't the case she needs to let you know that. (She is effectively claiming financial hardship by charging and can't expect people to pay full fees for a service not provided unless she is willing to explain her situation.). I would probably suggest as a compromise that you pay a proportionate amount to her income loss e.g. if your fees amount to 25% of her monthly income and she is down 20% of her income from claiming the SE payment and just for round figures you pay £1000 pm, her usual income is £4000 and she's been able to claim £3,200. You then pay 25% of the £800 she is down i.e. £200. She then needs to do the same with the other people she works for to reclaim her full income (if she feels she has a right to her full income).

By not refunding money she charges to cover costs she hasn't incurred whilst closed such as food, nappies and presumably activities she's already shown that she's willing to profit from the situation at your expense so I wouldn't be too worried about causing offence.

If she is an established child minder it is highly likely she got the self employment grant in May. So 80% of her earnings a up to £2.5k so really it is v cheeky of her to expect you to pay her too.
I would just ask her, make up a story about another childminder you know getting the grant.
See what she says
I would