Huffpost - leak on School Guidance

[PatriciaHolm]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/school-reopening-whole-year-bubbles-full-guidance-covid_uk_5ef9dd4ac5b6ca97091288e4?oo9&guccounter=1

Full document due this week, but some "highlights"...(I use the word advisedly)

• secondary bubbles of up to 240 children (essentially a year group) -No in-class social distancing requirement for primary pupils, with secondary pupils advised to stay 1m apart but not at all times -Teachers advised to keep 2m away from pupils, at the front of the class, and away from colleagues as much as possible as if in a supermarket

• Compulsory engagement with the NHS Test and Trace system, with whole classes or year groups liable to be sent home if a pupil tests positive, but whole school closure not seen as generally necessary

-No face coverings for pupils or teachers, on Public Health England advice, as they “interfere” with teaching and learning -Children seated facing forwards in same direction and not at circular tables, with pupils wearing normal uniform and washing hands throughout the day -Teachers advised to spend no more than 15 minutes at any one time closer than 1m to anyone - Fines of up to £120 for parents whose children fail to attend school. In contrast with the “softly softly” approach taken during full lockdown the message will be “education is not optional”

• Heads told not to put in any staff rota or physical distancing that would require extra space or make it impossible for all pupils to return full-time.

- Contingency plans for some or all of the school being put in local lockdown and any temporary return to “remote” teaching needing to be of a high quality -Some subjects for some or all pupils may have to be suspended for two terms to allow catch-up on core subjects such as English and maths, with a full spread of subjects returning in the summer term of of 2021 -Some pupils may have to drop some GSCEs altogether in Year 11 to allow them to catch up and achieve better grades in English and maths. GCSEs and A-levels to take place as planned next summer but with some “adaptations” - First year pupils at secondary school may have to be re-taught English and maths from their final year syllabus at primary level

How are you ever going to prove where someone caught it? A person comes into contact with 100s of people, not to mention n surfaces.

What about if a teacher catches flu at school and dies? Is that different?

There will end no liability if schools aim to follow government/phe guidance. People catch infectious diseases. That happened pre covid too. There was just no scaremongering so we all lived with it

@PinkFondantFancy

How are you ever going to prove where someone caught it? A person comes into contact with 100s of people, not to mention n surfaces.

If there's a sizeable outbreak in a school how can anyone realistically argue that, on the balance of probabilities, the teacher didn't catch it there?

They've set up a compensation scheme for NHS staff. They could equally argue they could have caught it anywhere?

What about if a teacher catches flu at school and dies? Is that different?

Firstly, we have vaccines against flu so staff can go some way to protecting themselves. Secondly, teachers haven't been singled out and told that any protection afforded to everyone else are banned when it comes to flu have they? So, if a flu pandemic was underway and the rest of society was told to abide by certain guidelines in order to minimise risk, but schools were exempt, then yes, I'd say any teacher who caught flu and died in those circumstances should be entitled to compensation.

If schools follow government guidance they won’t be liable.

Whether anyone could hold the government to account over the guidance on PPE, I doubt it but would be interested in legal view.

@havefunpeleton

There will end no liability if schools aim to follow government/phe guidance. People catch infectious diseases. That happened pre covid too. There was just no scaremongering so we all lived with it

Can you say why though? Given places of employment are expected to be Covid secure, why are schools as work places exempt? Why have families of NHS staff who died from it been compensated? Surely, if you want to argue that it's just an occupational hazard then that applies to hospital staff more than teachers?

Please note, I don't think it should apply to hospital staff. No employee should have their life at risk unnecessarily just from going to work.

The government guidance contradicts itself, therefore open to challenge.

@noblegiraffe

The government guidance contradicts itself, therefore open to challenge.

I agree. I hope someone challenges it legally before someone does die.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras - was that a psychiactric hospital? No patients wear masks here, staff at times especially when dealing with Covid + patients and they wear aprons in that situation too.

How does it contradict itself?

When we see patients with flu in nhs. We wear ppe. Flu is more infectious than covid. Do you wear ppe in schools? There is a vaccine but only for vulnerable. I'm sure not many in schools are vaccinated?

Government is following phe guidance on ppe for schools. What more should they do?

"Why would teachers need face visors? They aren't working with patients with Covid-19? The current infection rate is about 1 in 2,000. By September it should be a lot lower."
That depends on how people behave until then. I read today that a primary school in Birmingham have been sent home as a year 1 pupil has tested positive for Covid-19 and a teacher is awaiting their results. Maybe teachers do need visors?

The gov are very open to being sued.
It clearly is not safe. We are being told to stay a minimum of 1m away. Avoid being in enclosed spaces.
It is endemic. Their own traffic light says so. It is not about how many cases are local that is irrelevant when people can fly in or travel around the UK.
Hand washing will not help an individual stuck in a room. If people catch it on a bus (coach) it's not from touching everything.
How many bus drivers have got sick since the changes.likewise shop assistants.
The gov already caused thousands of deathx directly by not having enough ppe so killing loads of hcp and hospital patients and care home people.

They returned positive patients to care homes.

They make decision s 'to protect the nhs'
I cant see CW not washing hands etc. They probably all caught it from bj being in meetings. Parliament sit 2m apart. Lets suggest a few trips to look round the HoC while they are there.

Coronavirus: Husband and wife doctors suing government over PPE guidance
Meenal Viz and Nishant Joshi,

This was a while back, April, but couldn’t find record of outcome

Government is following phe guidance on ppe for schools

which is what-do you have a link?

It costs an awful lot to sue...

What are the unions saying?

Around my way the private schools have fully reopened to all pupils, no ppe except when escorting children back to their parents' cars or if they're dealing with an accident, no social distancing within bubbles. How come they're managing?

How come they're managing?

Replace that question with ‘why are they risking it?’

There’s an obvious answer.

Around my way, none of the private schools have fully opened.

Looking at the latest evidence from the Leicester outbreak they are attributing it to children and working age people.
The outbreaks have not been linked to hospitals or care homes but to factory’s schools and nursery’s.
They also said 38% of primary schools were opening to more pupils. Secondary were still sticking to keyworker / vulnerable.
They certainly need to do more research into this before September.

The PHE report on the Leicester outbreak has just been published, and it says that -
"This effect is most marked in the under 19-year-old group where the proportion of test positive cases fell to ≈5% (across all age groups) after the end of the initial epidemic peak, and has climbed back from mid-May to a current value of ≈15%.

The proportion of positive tests in working age people has also risen to ≈15%. "

It notes outbreaks in a couple of workplaces, a couple of carehomes, a household , a hospital and a school. With 4 nurseries and a school marked as "exposure/issue/threat".

Median age of cases is 40.

However, there has been no increase in hospitalisations

What's the obvious answer? The teachers there are just as free to get another job as anyone else if they felt they were being asked to take an unacceptable risk?

I suspect noble is referring to school fees.

The resignation date has long passed btw.

Class sizes are far smaller in private schools, and classrooms are bigger, generally.

But, also, none of the private schools in my town have done this or returned any of year 10 or 12, so it is not a universal truth.

Is it a bit bleak to add yet to your final sentence OP?