Huffpost - leak on School Guidance

[PatriciaHolm]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/school-reopening-whole-year-bubbles-full-guidance-covid_uk_5ef9dd4ac5b6ca97091288e4?oo9&guccounter=1

Full document due this week, but some "highlights"...(I use the word advisedly)

• secondary bubbles of up to 240 children (essentially a year group) -No in-class social distancing requirement for primary pupils, with secondary pupils advised to stay 1m apart but not at all times -Teachers advised to keep 2m away from pupils, at the front of the class, and away from colleagues as much as possible as if in a supermarket

• Compulsory engagement with the NHS Test and Trace system, with whole classes or year groups liable to be sent home if a pupil tests positive, but whole school closure not seen as generally necessary

-No face coverings for pupils or teachers, on Public Health England advice, as they “interfere” with teaching and learning -Children seated facing forwards in same direction and not at circular tables, with pupils wearing normal uniform and washing hands throughout the day -Teachers advised to spend no more than 15 minutes at any one time closer than 1m to anyone - Fines of up to £120 for parents whose children fail to attend school. In contrast with the “softly softly” approach taken during full lockdown the message will be “education is not optional”

• Heads told not to put in any staff rota or physical distancing that would require extra space or make it impossible for all pupils to return full-time.

- Contingency plans for some or all of the school being put in local lockdown and any temporary return to “remote” teaching needing to be of a high quality -Some subjects for some or all pupils may have to be suspended for two terms to allow catch-up on core subjects such as English and maths, with a full spread of subjects returning in the summer term of of 2021 -Some pupils may have to drop some GSCEs altogether in Year 11 to allow them to catch up and achieve better grades in English and maths. GCSEs and A-levels to take place as planned next summer but with some “adaptations” - First year pupils at secondary school may have to be re-taught English and maths from their final year syllabus at primary level

We’ve been told we can wear masks if we want, just the school won’t supply them.

This is an interesting quote from Matt Hancock, taken from the Daily Mail article

He said: 'There are under 18s that have tested positive and therefore because children can transmit the disease we think the safest thing to do is to close the schools', adding that they delayed this until Thursday to allow parents to organise childcare'.

So, children can transmit it then? So, how is it safe to open schools with no social distancing, no masks etc? That seems entirely reckless.

Assuming he isn't in school leadership reading the guidance isn't important. Regular teachers, like me, will just wait to be instructed by our school.

Regular teachers, like me, will just wait to be instructed by our school. I thought so but wasn’t sure.

@TuckMyWin

I'd be careful of that article. It's working on percentages. The one at the top of the list has gone from 2 to 8 cases week on week. Wikipedia suggests Havering had a population of 250000 in 2018. It's hardly a hotbed of infection.

By the same token though, people are questioning why Leicester has gone into lockdown. The available data doesn't appear to support it.

More thsn that, WTF is a 'bubble' that contains 210 or 240 children? That is not a 'bubble' in any meaningful sense, that is a mass spreading opportunity as far as the virus is concerned.

The whole idea of bubbles was of say one or two people, or a family. Once you start having 'bubbles' of up to 240 children, it is a semantically meaningless and effectively dishonest term.

The government needs to come clean and say that apart from washing hands, there is NOTHING in the proposed guidance that provides any protection to anyone, and that for anyone with a child of school age, the policy of herd immunity is being pursued.

In fact, the policy of herd immunity is being pursued for the whole population, as those shielding have been told they no longer need to shield.

Why are we allowing a bunch of eugenicists to murder our elderly and poor?

Marsha apparently his school's approach so far has been to plan for multiple scenarios, ranging from another full lockdown to business as usual, and then ELT have planned a series of zoom calls starting mid-August to communicate which of these scenarios fits whatever guidance that will be in effect at that point.

Xiaoxiong fair enough.
Although I admit I appreciate email confirmation from our schools - usually within two days clarifying what the guidance means for students in practise. The schools, one in particular, has been really hot on direct, quick instruction. Tg!

Cases do 'appear from nowhere' because people travel. People shop.
One week no cases in the area. Next week child A goes to school (after having person B quaranting in their house coming back from Brazil/USA etc. Child A infects the teacher and 40% of the class. Who then infect their parents 1 who works in a secondary school. Another in a meat factory...
Some families go to the beach and shops in a town 100m away.

In my dc class alone we have parents : nurses, doctors, gp office staff, 2 teachers teachers. Etc
Then obviously 50% of kids have siblings which may be in another school year or another school or secondary or various preschools.
Kids go to 1 of 3 secondaries.
For as much good it will do you may as well say the primary 30 'bubbles' is actually several thousand people who have contact within 1m with no ppe. (420 in school plus teachers, so 840 parents then siblings schools etc etc).

@Hearhooves the Daily Mail is only looking at clinically driven testing numbers. It doesn't have community testing numbers, because they don't get published. They now represent about 75% of cases. So no, that data doesn't support lockdown in Leicester, because it's only about 25% of the picture. But by the same token, there's no reason to believe those 30 or so other areas are a problem.

@noostrich
Exactly they need to publish how many people are actually going to be connected to these bubbles on average...
240 is probably the whole city.
Ours would effectively be half our county plus the city (where adults work and where 1 secondary serves. )

@TuckMyWin

I'd be careful of that article. It's working on percentages. The one at the top of the list has gone from 2 to 8 cases week on week. Wikipedia suggests Havering had a population of 250000 in 2018. It's hardly a hotbed of infection.

It's completely useless data.

It's only Pillar One, which is healthcare settings; it doesn't have any Pillar 2, the community testing, which is about 75% of tests and positives.

There doesn't seem to be much relationship between the two - see graph, courtesy of @rp131 on Twitter.

Exactly, @Keepdistance.

'Bubbles' is a dishonest term. It suggests it is providing some sort of protection.

When it is doing no such thing.

It is exposing up to 240 children and numerous teachers at a time to the same germs/viruses. If it spreads among 240 plus people, each of whom live in families (these are children so none will be living on their own) and who also get public transport, shop, have parents who work elsewhere, who may even go on holiday to other countries, who eat in restaurants etc., it will, as you say, effectively spread to every single child in the school and every single teacher, as well as a huge number of employers and other social/consumer settings, within a short space of time.

Why is Boris Johnson to keen to spread a deadly disease as widely as possible?

[ quote]
I know this is a Daily Mail link, but it's in many other papers too

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8473769/amp/The-36-areas-England-Covid-19-cases-RISING.html?amp_js_v=a3&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15935152509953&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-8473769%2FThe-36-areas-England-Covid-19-cases-RISING.html [/ quote]

Seriously, the 50% increase spike in Suffolk is 1, yes 1 case, going from 2 to 3 over a week. How the hell can even a rag like the Mail consider 3 cases in an entire county to be a spike?? Similarly for several others on their list, and this is in no way comparable to the situation in Leicester

[quote TuckMyWin]@Hearhooves the Daily Mail is only looking at clinically driven testing numbers. It doesn't have community testing numbers, because they don't get published. They now represent about 75% of cases. So no, that data doesn't support lockdown in Leicester, because it's only about 25% of the picture. But by the same token, there's no reason to believe those 30 or so other areas are a problem.[/quote]
That list is published in the Daily Mail and also in many of the other papers. I've seen it in the Express and The Telegraph. It isn't the Daily Mails list.

It may, or may not prove to be accurate but it's compiled using the data that is publicly available, which is part of the problem isn't it? Why are government preventing us from having all of the data? As with all of this, time will tell.

PatriciaHolm

But then that table doesn't explain why Leicester has gone into lockdown when for example East Humber has many more cases. So, is it numbers infected, percentages or what that triggers lockdown?

It's immaterial for this thread anyway. What is relevant is Matt Hancock admitting that children transmit it and so schools in Leicester are closing. How can they say schools will open fully in September with no precautions and yet also admit that children transmit it?

Well, all I know is my local area had a PHE 'deep dive' wb 22 June and have to wait 3 weeks for findings... which rather makes a mockery of all the 'world beating' stuff.

And it isn't on The Fail list which does rather undermine their strange map...

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

PatriciaHolm

But then that table doesn't explain why Leicester has gone into lockdown when for example East Humber has many more cases. So, is it numbers infected, percentages or what that triggers lockdown?

It's immaterial for this thread anyway. What is relevant is Matt Hancock admitting that children transmit it and so schools in Leicester are closing. How can they say schools will open fully in September with no precautions and yet also admit that children transmit it?

It's about a combination of relative growth and absolute numbers in a specific locale, which that graph doesn't get down as far as, unfortunately. There is a graph from a Leicester paper around somewhere that shows significant growth, with the area having 5-10% of all cases over the last couple of weeks.

And for schools - well, if there are very few cases in a specific area, then transmission is likely to very low, full stop. Anyway - September is, almost certainly, many revisions of the Schools Guideline away, if the last few weeks are anything to go by....

@Hercwasonaroll The National Tutoring Programme is going yo use graduates (not qualified teachers) to catch up the most vulnerable so I'm sure any passing person can do Maths, and English teaching catch up no bother!

The proposal to force some pupils to drop GCSEs to focus on English and Maths is clearly going to massively disadvantage pupils at state schools compared to pupils at private schools, who I'm sure will continue to do ALL their GCSE subjects.

This will reduce the chances for children from ordinary schools of getting into decent universities for YEARS to come. It will continue to impact their careers going forward.

There are solutions that are equitable and do not artificially hobble children in the state sector.

The government's proposals seem designed specifically to hamper the life chances of all children who are not privately educated.

I think as others have said. They are wanting to say all schools back to normal. But they need to provide guidance for 'covid secure workplaces'. So that is why they've had to create this.

I trust head teachers to be sensible in interpreting the guidance. And I'm delighted all children will be returning full time in September

noostrich

50% go to university.
For the other 50% who don't you could argue that passing their maths & English is more important than a GCSE in .

And surely the ones most likely to be forced/encouraged to drop a GCSE will be the ones more at risk of not passing their maths/English than ones headed for A levels & university?

We all know what happens to bubbles when they get too big.

Anyone seen the latest about exams that impacts on this?
An Exam board has said all pupils have the right to sit an exam if they are unhappy with their grades given by teachers. Schools are to be told they must provide an exam for each and every GCSE amd A level subject in the autumn term, October and November I think it said.
How on earth are schools meant to do that along with all the bubble stuff(sky news)