Coronavirus and shielding non resident parent AIBU

[AwkwardAsAllGetout]

I’d like some outside perspective on this as I genuinely don’t know if I am BU. I have a 7 year old dd and we live a good 4 hours away from her dad (I moved closer to my family when she was under a year old after he left us). He normally sees her for one weekend a month and has been pretty shitty at contact between these times tbh, but I’ve been impressed that he still makes the drive to come and see her. He’s now not seen her since February. Apparently his girlfriend (who he lives with) is shielding and neither can leave the house or have anyone around until August at the earliest. Is this true? I’m so confused by current guidelines that I can’t decide if he’s being really shit or if he genuinely has no choice. I don’t know the circumstances of why she’s shielding. It’s caused bad feeling for me as a few weeks into lockdown I really struggled with dds behaviour and I asked him to help, which is when he told me about the shielding. I have other dc at home and he does not. I’ve asked him today when he intends to see her and he said not until August. He was meant to call her yesterday but sent a message saying he’d forgotten as he was busy making his dinner. What would you do in this situation? At a very basic level, he’s saved a huge amount of money on petrol from not coming here and my costs have increased as I have dd home (eating ) all day. Would you ask for more maintenance to reflect this? The amount he pays takes into consideration the distance he drives and the frequency of his contact. Aside from costs, I fear their relationship is going to suffer from not seeing each other. I can’t understand it at all, nothing would keep me from seeing my child.

He doesn't need to shield if living with a shielded person but if he doesn't he would then have to socially distance when in the house with her (keep away from her, sleep in separate beds, eat separately, etc). It would be hard to then have a child in the house and all have to avoid each other. It's a hard situation tbh

Yes, what he’s said is basically true. And shielding is to be paused on 1 August.

The logistics of how he can see his DC will need to be sorted out then in light of everyone concerned. exposure patterns. The recently shielded will remain more limited in who they are advised if is safe to have close contact with

I’d be a little wary of asking for more maintenance unless you are really on your uppers. If this went to court, it is normal for the person who moved away to be directed to do the travelling for contact. Do you want to chance that?

iVampire he didn’t really conduct himself in any manner that would impress a court tbh. It’s not the money really, that’s me being petty. It just seems such a long time to go without seeing her. And rather than call more often, he seems to be using it as an excuse to just let her down. I know it’s an impossible situation.

I'm shielding and there is no way I would be able to just not see my DC - it is ridiculous. How long could you live like that realistically?

(From 6th July the "rules" are that you don't have to socially distance from your household btw). It's safe from one minute past midnight on that date!

Regardless of that, he is a shit dad "forgot to call because he was making his dinner" this is indefensible surely, but it does amaze me how low people set the bar for mens behaviour when it comes to being a parent.

He isn't even the one who is shielding - it's his girlfriend. So he is prioritising his GF rather than his DC. What a prince amongst men.

I'm astounded that people think his behaviour is understandable let alone reasonable. It's not the current situation making it "hard" - he is a shit dad.

He hasn't seen her since February.

@iVampire and @dementedpixie would you treat your DC like that?

If his girlfriend has a medical condition which is serious enough for her to be put on the shielding list then to be honest I can understand them being very wary of having contact with anyone who is having more contact with the outside world. Basically, if the girlfriend is on the shielding list, there is a high risk that Covid would kill her. What is your situation, OP? Is anyone in your household working outside of home? Are any of your children attending school or nursery?

Ok Op

Be honest. You don’t give a damn at this point About their relationship. He sees her once a month usually so hardly a rock in her life.

You need the break. That’s the long and short of it. And fair enough.

So now that’s been established. What you should do.

Suggest that you go halves on a test done privately. Get her tested. All being well her negative. And off she goes and he won’t have a leg to stand on.

LilyPond2, no dh is working from home and none of the dc are back at school yet. We’re not shielding but being very careful when we go out and the dc aren’t coming into any shops with us. We’ve been very lucky as far as the virus is concerned, my mum was very ill at the very start but apart from that we don’t know anyone else who’s even suspected that they’ve had it.

As to whether your daughter Should be with a man who Is clearly not bothered about Seeing her is another issue altogether

OP, it sounds to me that it would be reasonably easy for your family to self-isolate for 14 days before your DD's dad visits. Could you stock up on enough food so you can do 14 days without food shopping? You could then offer to your ex that your whole household will self-isolate for 14 days before he meets with his daughter. If he still doesn't want to, that will strongly suggest that he is using the shielding girlfriend as an excuse and is not really bothered about seeing his daughter.

Many families and partners of Shielding people are also shielding with them if they can because otherwise the advice says to maintain a 2m distance from them at home and clean the bathroom thoroughly after every use, which means no cooking, eating or sleeping together.

And August 1st is when shielding is scheduled to be "paused", but there is no obligation for those Shielding to stop doing so, except for work.

My friend is in a similar situation and does booked video calls with his child. They are at a fixed time every week and high priority, nobody messes with it for any reason.

My dc father is shielding and due to
ill health hasn’t seen them since 12 Feb and is shielding until 31st July, Scotland. The fact that he has saved money does not affect my maintenance in any way. He does however face time them every few days. I have continued to wfh every day as well and am on my knees with exhaustion. However there is nothing else for it, what would we suggest?
Think the problem is the lack of other contact with his dd

If his gf has a shielding letter then he's not being unreasonable. It's a very tricky situation, these are not ordinary times. Asking for extra money also seems relatively petty - he may have had a household income cut due to the shielding. What he should be doing is using technology a couple of times a week!

Is anyone on this thread shielding themselves and so hasn't seen their DC in months? I don't mean that in a snarky way, I'm genuinely curious if people are doing this.

Shielded people could meet groups of up to 5 others outside socially distanced from 6 July or your two households could bubble (not sure from what date) once the shielded are allowed to bubble with a single parent household.

I’m shielding, and one of my DC stayed with a school friend for a couple of days then went into full quarantine/isolation for 14 days with her WFH father (because there had been a probable case in her class). Only the did she come and live with me behind my shield,

If she has been a bit older and so if either of them WOH, they would have lived with their father for the duration of the strict shielding.

Another shielding friend sent her DS to live with his girlfriend for the duration, because he WOH.

And another moved out to stay with another (also shielding) friend, leaving DC and father in the family home.

So yes, some DC have been missing a parent for some or all of the shield period. I think this did get rather overlooked because if the extent of the lazy/wrong thinking that shielded equated to ‘old decrepit and about to die’ which of course is simply not right

@OhFuckOffWithTheBubbleBollocks

Is anyone on this thread shielding themselves and so hasn't seen their DC in months? I don't mean that in a snarky way, I'm genuinely curious if people are doing this.

I'm shielding and I haven't seen my children at all. Ok they are 25 and 21 but the 21 year old is at university, in their final year, and stayed rather than come home because I'm shielding. We missed their 21st birthday which was during lockdown.

It's really hard because although the household doesn't have to shield you have to isolate within the home if they don't, so use a separate bathroom, sleep in a separate room, eat separately, not be in the same room together etc etc.

There is a huge difference between not seeing adult children (especially not living at home) and not seeing children children who you normally live with FT though, it's just not a comparable situation IMO.

"It's really hard because although the household doesn't have to shield you have to isolate within the home if they don't, so use a separate bathroom, sleep in a separate room, eat separately, not be in the same room together etc etc."

Also this just isn't possible for some people, who don't have separate bathrooms or spare bedrooms. Lots
of people can't work from home as they work in factories or shops etc etc. Like everything, life is harder for people who are poorer. Especially true for shielding households.

I think that this situation is here to stay for the foreseeable, and the upcoming shielding "pause" is so people realise that this is not a sustainable strategy long term. I would be unable (logistically as well as emotionally) to live apart from my DC for many months let alone years. I also wouldn't expect them or my DH to dramatically reduce their own quality of life to protect me. (I know they would if I asked it but it's not fair). There is a tipping point between ensuring physical safety at the cost of emotional harm.

At some point we are going to have to accept that the risk to us personally is higher but that is how it is, sadly. We can change our own lives if we choose, eg avoiding any socialising at all etc but it's unreasonable to ask other people (especially the other people we love or live with!) to live that way when they don't have the same risk.

For the people we don't live with or love, the extremely clinically vulnerable are statistically such a small group, that sweeping restrictions to "protect the vulnerable" isn't fair or reasonable. (I think it's a bit like the the concept of "reasonable adjustments" in the Equality Act).

I think using "protect the vulnerable" to excuse the behaviour of a man who is not a good father normally (doesn't bother with contacting or seeing his DC) isn't right.

OhFuckOffWithTheBubbleBollocks

But my 21 year old hasn't moved away. Their home is here. It's just during term time they live at university. Because I'm shielding they've stayed there, on their own.

And I'm aware of the difficulties of living in a small house, because we do. We only have one bathroom. That's why they've stayed away because it would be practically impossible for three people to live here and me to stay safe.

That's why many people opted to shield the whole family rather than isolating the shielded person in one room.

There aren't any easy choices I don't think. The op has moved four hours away from the dad so what does contact involve? Does the DD go and stay with dad and his gf or does dad stay with someone close to op and see his dd? Both of those options put his girlfriend at increased risk don't they?

I agree there are no easy choices, sometimes not even good ones, just less bad ones!

I think OP's case is different as the dad hasn't been arsed about contact with his DD for months and before the shielding situation. I also think I would prioritise seeing my DC over a girl/boy friend but everyone makes different choices. As the shielding partner myself, I wouldn't expect my DH not to see his DC because I was shielding. I'd actually prefer him to put the DC first!

In your case, tell me to fuck off if you think I'm prying but I'm genuinely curious to know what you think - I think this situation is going to be around for months if not years, so would your DC not come home for the whole period? Or would people expect their whole family to shield for that time?

Personally I think at the moment, just after lockdown, is probably the safest time we will get (and the least bad time!) to see others and lead more of a "normal" life.

I also know I personally could not live like this for an extended period, it's more harmful than beneficial. I actually think the whole "strictness" and the whole implementation of shielding strategy has been harmful than beneficial. I would prefer adults to be given all the information and supported to make their own assessments of their own individual actions, not blanket policies.

(I'm only talking about shielding adults btw, I know shielding DC is completely different)

In your case, tell me to fuck off if you think I'm prying smile but I'm genuinely curious to know what you think - I think this situation is going to be around for months if not years, so would your DC not come home for the whole period? Or would people expect their whole family to shield for that time?

We are really thinking hard about this at the moment. This clearly isn't going anywhere and her lease is about to end.

In the short term she's probably going to move back home but, especially as lockdown eased for everyone else, it's going to be very difficult, particularly when she gets a job, can go out more to socialise and of course if shielding is re instated. We are considering me moving in with my parents who are elderly and have been in isolation anyway.

I don't know what the answer is.

I agree that if this was me I would want my partner to see their child but then if they live with you it's not so easy. We don't know why his gf is shielding do we? There may well be very good reasons why they need to be strict with the shielding.

What does your DD want to do hooves?

I have adult DC living here as well as younger, they are going to work atm (and will be at uni/college when they reopen) and socialising - obviously with restrictions.

Obviously (all) my DC are worried for me and they are very strict with hygiene and we aren't hugging or anything but we are living in the same house and don't have a spare bathroom or bedroom. I think we have to look to the future as well as the present and from my POV, I want my DC to be with me as much as they can (and want to ) especially as I know these are probably the last few months/years they will live here "properly".

Also my DH has to go to work and we have to share a bedroom so we can't completely eradicate risk, we just have to live with it, assess it and minimise it where we can.

I think it's really important we do our own in depth research from a variety of (legitimate, not a friends DB who is friends with a neighbours cousin who is a doctor ) sources and assess the risks and how we want to live our lives. I know the risk to my health is severe if I catch it and I can't control that, but the risk of actually catching it is what I can control or minimise at least .

(I think it's all been handled terribly by the government, who have managed to be both woefully inadequate and OTT in different areas. I also think they are spectacularly fucking over young DC at the expense of the "vulnerable" and I don't want to be a party to that).

The one thing I would say re DC at home is that they do of course worry I will catch it, and if my only interaction has been with them or DH, it will be from them (especially if asymptomatic). I don't really want them to have any guilt (plus I am slowly losing my mind with no interaction other than them!) so I haven't been fully shielding. I have visited a couple of shops etc (masked and gloved!)

Doing that has made me realise how damaging the current blanket shielding policy is and has been.

@OhFuckOffWithTheBubbleBollocks

What does your DD want to do hooves?

I have adult DC living here as well as younger, they are going to work atm (and will be at uni/college when they reopen) and socialising - obviously with restrictions.

Obviously (all) my DC are worried for me and they are very strict with hygiene and we aren't hugging or anything but we are living in the same house and don't have a spare bathroom or bedroom. I think we have to look to the future as well as the present and from my POV, I want my DC to be with me as much as they can (and want to ) especially as I know these are probably the last few months/years they will live here "properly".

Also my DH has to go to work and we have to share a bedroom so we can't completely eradicate risk, we just have to live with it, assess it and minimise it where we can.

I think it's really important we do our own in depth research from a variety of (legitimate, not a friends DB who is friends with a neighbours cousin who is a doctor ) sources and assess the risks and how we want to live our lives. I know the risk to my health is severe if I catch it and I can't control that, but the risk of actually catching it is what I can control or minimise at least .

(I think it's all been handled terribly by the government, who have managed to be both woefully inadequate and OTT in different areas. I also think they are spectacularly fucking over young DC at the expense of the "vulnerable" and I don't want to be a party to that).

The one thing I would say re DC at home is that they do of course worry I will catch it, and if my only interaction has been with them or DH, it will be from them (especially if asymptomatic). I don't really want them to have any guilt (plus I am slowly losing my mind with no interaction other than them!) so I haven't been fully shielding. I have visited a couple of shops etc (masked and gloved!)

Doing that has made me realise how damaging the current blanket shielding policy is and has been.

I think she, like many of us, is torn.

Practically she has to come home. She will shortly have nowhere to live and no job so from that perspective needs to come home, and of course this is her home.

But you've highlighted the problem - I would not want her to have the guilt if I were to catch this. My husband and I have been largely avoiding each other which isn't easy but is doable with just the two of us here. We've slept in separate bedrooms, eaten separately and not sat in the same room together. We only have one bathroom but he's been cleaning it fully every time he's used it. It will be considerably more difficult when there is another adult in the house, especially when that adult is legitimately allowed out to meet friends, potentially go to pubs, restaurants etc. Obviously neither myself or my husband will be doing that and as much as I don't want my daughter to do that I can't expect her to lock herself up in here either. She's also going to have to look for work too which is going to.again increase the risk.

Right now we possibly are talking about a fairly low risk of catching it and I'll be going back to work myself in August as long as shielding is paused then, as planned but I guess the real difficulties will be if they reinstate shielding. If they do then I think I will have to.move in with my parents. I can't see another way around it.

I too wish we could be able to work out our individual risk but when I've spoken to my consultants about this I've been getting fairly non committal answers - no one knows for sure, I'm obviously at very high risk but that doesn't mean I will definitely be seriously ill or die (or even catch it) but from what they've seen I'm very likely to be severely affected and so it's better to be ultra careful, that my oxygen levels are already low and this is known to affect oxygen saturation so I've got less room to manoeuvre before I'm in dire straits but they can't say for definite etc etc. So much fence sitting, which I guess is understandable because in many cases they just don't know do they?

So, she will definitely move back now, she's isolated for fourteen days so is safe to come home but then we will need to negotiate each step I think, with the option of me moving out if necessary.

"We've slept in separate bedrooms, eaten separately and not sat in the same room together"

That sounds incredibly difficult. How long you could live like that though? Or moving out and not seeing your DD or DH. How long could you do it for, if this situation lasts for a few years? I'm not being snarky. I just don't think I could do it myself, to be honest. In some ways I'm "lucky" in that I have to share a room with DH as I'm epileptic. Even so, I seriously would not have managed the last couple of months never sitting or sleeping with him. It's literally the only thing keeping me going.

My other fear would be that if we did live^ like that and it went on much longer, at some point we would have to crack and stop it, then I would feel regret for the time we did^ spend apart.

It's really hard isn't it.

Oh italics