Why does no one talk about the 1989-90 epidemic?

[LinemanForTheCounty]

Found out about this recently - 29000 dead. Looking at the dates I had it and after effects including pleurisy (I was 20, no reason for me to have pleurisy other than this). It affected people under 25 worst.

I dunno. I'm trying to figure this all out but that's a lot of people dead, mostly young people. Did we get it wrong then or have we got it wrong now? Our response, I mean.

Yes, my friends daughter contracted encephalitis after getting flu, and was very ill (1989). She reminded me recently, because I remember her being ill, but my family did not get it.
I am also old enough to remember the 1968 Hong Kong flu pandemic. I was at school and remember friends being off with flu. I did not get it. According to the Daily Telegraph, 80,000 people in UK died, but I always thought it was about 40,000.

I don't remember that one (I wasn't in UK at the time)

I did have it (standard case, took about 3 weeks) in the bad outbreak in 1975. There were several bad outbreaks around then.

Yes, some businesses closed during the worst weeks and schools would be very depleted (and closed when there were insufficient teachers - which back then meant next to no-one standing.

One key difference is that there was no rolling TV news coverage. Even the radio, which had the most bulletins throughout the day, would have hours between updates,

I am amazed that I don't remember the 1989 epidemic at all. I don't even have the excuse that I was a child when it was happening. I do remember the H1N1 pandemic in 2009 though. In the early stages, that did feel a little like Covid-19. There was a lot of anxiety that it would spread rapidly but in the end the virus proved to be less severe than feared and there was also a vaccine available. Ironically, at the time, the government was criticised for its over reaction instead of being praised for its approach (for instance, air passengers from places where the virus was widespread had their temperature tested on arrival in the UK). I often wonder if that negative reaction meant politicians and officials were too cautious about intervening too early this time.

It was also at the height of the AIDS pandemic so possibly people were focussed on that.

nettie I caught H1N1 whilst teaching in central London, I was a confirmed case. Luckily I wasn’t too ill with it - felt like I had been run over by a bus but didn’t need any intervention.

@Useruseruserusee

nettie I caught H1N1 whilst teaching in central London, I was a confirmed case. Luckily I wasn’t too ill with it - felt like I had been run over by a bus but didn’t need any intervention.

I had a colleague who got it too but luckily nobody else at work caught it. She was ill for at least a week - perhaps longer. It was miserable as she stayed at home on her own feeling awful. I read somewhere that some people who have had H1N1 and MERScov may have residual immunity to Covid-19 so let's hope this is a very delayed benefit for you useruseruserusee!

It's because the main virus is the virus of social media and MSM these days...

@LinemanForTheCounty I think the one time I had flu was during the 89-90 epidemic. I would have been 12. I remember it being the last day of term before Christmas holidays, coming downstairs for breakfast as normal and feeling OK, then suddenly feeling so ill that I couldn't go to school.

I've also got a vague recollection of going back to school in January and all the kids being lectured about the high absence rate in the week before Christmas, as if they thought loads of pupils had decided to bunk off/not bother going to school as it was the end of term.

I remember being slightly about that lecture as I was genuinely ill, as I'm sure most of the other absentees were.

I'm was 26 suffered my first bout of pneumonia after flu then and I've never heard of it til now

I don't remember lots of people being ill that winter and it was one that stuck in the mind because it was when the Berlin Wall came down.

I do remember the real Millennium Bug though in 1999/2000, had awful flu.

I read somewhere that some people who have had H1N1 and MERScov may have residual immunity to Covid-19

If you come across what you read, would you link it. I can see why other human coronaviruses might ave some sort of cross protection for this coronavirus (and remember reading about one particular strain of cold in this context)

But I've not come across the idea that influenza (a whole different family of viruses) had any relevance and wouid like to read up,(yes, I know I can google, but if you still have the link it'll give me a nice starting point)

I wasn’t aware of this - interesting links to read. I had flu one Christmas when I was very young but can’t remember what year it was. Never been ill like that before or since, it was awful.

This has been talked about at length on Mumsnet and several other forums but there really is an issue with describing bad colds/chest infections as flu. Influenza is a serious illness that can have complications and can kill you, it’s not a bad cold. People have forgotten this. It’s why back in March people thought a virus that mostly gave someone mild respiratory symptoms wasn’t something to be concerned about.

We didn't lock down because even without lockdown fewer people died than have so far died with covid, hospitals coped . And it would not surprise me to learn that the average lost years to live was somewhat smaller

Here we are EdithWeston. I don't think this is the article I read originally but it does suggest it is worth exploring which populations are less affected:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/07/immunological-dark-matter-does-it-exist-coronavirus-population-immunity

The article quotes Sunetra Gupta. She was one of the first people to suggest coronavirus was present in populations some months earlier. Now it looks as if she was right. I had better start work now but will look through my Internet history to see if I can find anything else later.

Obviously, 29,000 is bad, but Covid is clearly in a different league, with almost double the deaths with lockdown and significant social distancing for months.

Had we carried on as a society as we did back then, the 500,000 deaths mooted back in March if we took no measures would have been very plausible outcome, especially if Government scientists are correct and that only 5% of people have been infected.

I remember this, my Sister was hospitalised. I was about to say what pp have said. The AIDS crisis was at it's peak.

Treatments for everything were less, health was poorer, pregnancy issues were more serious still and we didn't not expect to die from flu and other things. Life expectancy was less. So it was less shocking.

You can't compare the deaths because of the lack of treatment. If Covid happened in 1989 it would have killed most of the people in hospital, we didn't have the treatment pathways.

It's like any news, it depended on what you take notice of and what the Newspaper you chose to read, or if ITV/BBC, reported it. Unlike now were we have access to global news, whenever we want. The Hillsborough disaster was that year, just after, Liverpool fans were jailed for the Heysel disaster. Salman Rushdie, the IRA was still a threat, the Berlin Wall happened, it was a big year for News. Miss the 10 o'clock news for a few days, which is quite easy over Christmas and you could have missed it.

I was 19 and had just had a baby and got married. I wasn't ill and do not remember anyone that was or any news about this

The article quotes Sunetra Gupta. She was one of the first people to suggest coronavirus was present in populations some months earlier.

It’s a good article, but it’s misleading to say it states that coronavirus (by that I’m assuming you mean Covid-19) was present some months earlier. Rather there are various coronaviruses in general circulation - all far less virulent than Covid-19 - and that exposure to one or other of these could give a degree of protection against Covid-19. This seems plausible to me.

It seems to be a highly complex situation where people aren’t simply immune or not, as various factors come in to play. For instance, someone who has some cross-immunity from a previous coronavirus may be able to easily throw off an infection if exposed to a low viral load and otherwise fit and well, but if run down and exposed to a large viral load, the outcome may be different with the protection overwhelmed...

By the way Covid-19 probably was present earlier, just not in massive numbers that we saw in March/April.

I remember being 8 years of age and having an awful illness as a child. I remember not being able to move from bed. It's something that's always stuck with me, I had never heard of this though.

I remember it OP, people went down like flies at work. I'd forgotten about it 'til you mentioned it, though.

I don't remember that epidemic and I was an adult then with two children. but your figures give the answer to why we have handled covid differently 29000 dead with no lockdown. Covid 50, 000 dead with lockdown. Without lockdown there would have been many more dead. Also Covid is a new virus and a global pandemic no one has immunity to it and currently there is no vaccine. Its not the same as flu

LinemanForTheCounty you may be thinking it was comparable, but remember that the current death count is despite the whole world closing down. We took unprecedented steps to control it and kept it below 43,000 (so far)

I think one estimate for the UK alone was 250,000 dead and a health service unable to cope.

One girl at school got chronic fatigue from that flu. I wonder if she ever got better.

As PP have pointed out, this particular virus has ~25 times the death rate of that flu. Different league, no?

There were 48,000 excess winter deaths in 1999/2000

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/highestnumberofexcesswinterdeathssince19992000/2015-11-25

To whoever said there would have been 500,000 deaths if we hadn’t locked down really needs to have a good hard look at the expert analysis on Neil Ferguson’s modelling. It is NOT reliable in any way.