Are the unions going to kick off about back to school in September?

[Flippetydip]

Is there going to be a big hoo ha from the unions about the "everyone back to school at full capacity" announcement from the PM today?

Any teachers on here care to give a view?

@averysuitablegirl there are some amazing teachers and amazing schools doing all they can to support these kids.

My point isn't about these teachers/schools.

It's about the significant benefits for these children being in school and that needs to be a central theme of all discussions on return to school.

The best way to support vulnerable children is for ALL children to be back in school with compulsory attendance - because for many families, the stigma (and effort) of being 'the only ones in' or 'having to do something special' is a significant barrier.

cantkeepawayforever
The best way to support vulnerable children is for ALL children to be back in school with compulsory attendance

Yup this is going to help a vulnerable school refuser with high anxiety,

Hellogoditsmemargaret engaging these families is central to discussions in all state schools and has been since well before covid.

Schools will have been continuing to get those children in but haven't been able to escalate through la absence policies since 20 March.

I think persistent absence averages at around 5% in state schools, even in ordinary times.

And its actions of individual schools and teachers that ensure that it's not an even higher %.

Fripp,

The thing is, very few of the eligible vulnerable students have been in school during the pandemic.

This isn't because they all have high anxiety.

Those who are absent because of high anxiety - or who are shielding due to health conditions - obviously need something different and extra, but it doesn't change the point about the majority.

"The best way to support vulnerable children is for ALL children to be back in school with compulsory attendance"
Yes that will help vulnerable children from the stigma..(I presume you mean vulnerable from unsafe households and not medical issues) .but it will not help children or families who have people with medical conditions that should they get covid it will kill them.

Yes. I meant 'the normal definition of vulnerable', not 'medically vulnerable' in the Covid sense.

The Government ought to be preparing for and funding longer term, high quality, universal online learning for the latter.

Fripp,The thing is, very few of the eligible vulnerable students have been in school during the pandemic.This isn't because they all have high anxiety. Those who are absent because of high anxiety - or who are shielding due to health conditions - obviously need something different and extra, but it doesn't change the point about the majority

And you know this how?

No anecdotes, please.

cant : this isn't anew problem. The pandemic has thrown it into relief. I work in attendance in school. All the persistent absentees are either medically or socially vulnerable . Schools (and social care) have been working on this for years, as you know. With very little support, and even less budget.

The sad thing is that it has taken a pandemic for ordinary people to notice this, for the government to appear to care , and for people to start trying to find blame.

Earlier this week , the children's commissioner challenged Johnson on the root causes of child poverty and found him to be making statistics up, presumably so he can turn around and say any escalation in child poverty is nothing to do with years of austerity ,a and all to do with a pandemic and lazy teachers/ unions.

@Flippetydip

Ooh my first flowery biscuit - never understood it so it's lost on me I'm afraid.

It absolutely wasn't my intention to upset people, I was asking for a view. Perhaps I shouldn't have phrased it the way I did, so apologies - it wasn't well thought out. I have very much felt that the unions have been playing a political game though given that the risks are minimal of children carrying and spreading the virus.

Does anyone have any stats of how many outbreaks there have been in schools and how many teachers have been impacted?

It's a biscuit?? I've honestly never known what that is or means. A flower maybe? Or a nipple? Never considered it might be a biscuit.

cantkeepawayforever

If you meant what you 'think the majority' is then say so because that doesn't mean all.

Do you genuinely feel that these young people have any hope in achieving their potential. He’s trying so hard but the feeling of disconnect is huge

I genuinely feel they will. Children are immensely resilient- in our current we have 4 children who missed massive chunks of primary school due to serious illness. In terms of levels and socialisation etc you’d never know.

I’ve taught gcse students in the past who have missed big parts of the course and they’ve caught up - more difficult than those who miss primary, but in the current situation exam boards/ofqual will have to ensure this cohort are not disadvantaged.

Apologies for making an inappropriate generalisation:

• In general, children who are 'vulnerable' in the non-Covid sense because of their home circumstances benefit from being in school. They are most likely to attend school when everyone else does and when there are processes and penalties in place that actively encourage parents to send them into school. On a personal level, I know that this group of vulnerable children have been very hard to get into the school provision available for them during lockdown, despite extremely hard work by the school.

• There are a group of children who are 'vulnerable' by virtue of SEND or mental health issues or for other reasons, for whom being at school is extremely difficult under any circumstances, and where return to school makes little difference or may make the situation worse.

• There are children who have SEN and who are not 'vulnerable' in either sense, though they have specific needs and may well benefit from being in school both for their family and for the provision of appropriate levels of help and care. Compared with the first group, the school I work in has found these children much easier to bring into school, though staffing and safety of staff (due to challenging behaviour, including e.g. spitting and biting) has been an ongoing challenge

In the schools I have taught in, the first group plus the third has always been much larger in number than the second group. This may well not be true everywhere, and may also not be true in different types of school.

• There are also a group of children who are 'extremely medically vulnerable to COVID', who may previously not have been labelled as 'vulnerable' at all. They cannot and should not be in school until the risk is much lower, and so the provision for them needs to be very different.

Apologies.

All the hand wringing and moaning in the world won’t solve this.

The exam boards will modify accordingly. They are already doing stuff, as l had an exam board meeting at 1/2 term. Stuff is in place and more will be in place if required.

10 and 12 will be fine because of this. It will not impact them for ever. And when it does have the highest point of impact the exam boards will address this. Universities will have to do the same.

Children often miss a lot of school but actually seem to cope with it.

We don’t know what will happen in September. If Boris was useful he would plan. But he’s crap, so people are scared. He won’t admit to the fact that schools need the same rules as other places, as he doesn’t want to put his hand in his pockets. But l think he will have to.

We haven’t thrown our hands up.

The government have given us no structure, guidance or help. This is the governments fault. And unless they plan systematically and cough up, then if it spikes again we will be back in the same situation.

It is their appalling handling of the whole thing which is causing this. And l see Scottish schools are about to get antsy about going back in August with no social distancing. I do t blame them tbh.

It isn't scaremongering to want answers to important questions.

Social distancing will still apply. Even at 1m classrooms aren't big enough to take 30+ children. Especially at secondary level. Will they go back on a rota system or will the government provide extra spaces and teachers.

Public transport is limited to fewer than usual. How will the children get there and home?

What's going to happen about school dinners?

Will the government pay for the extra cleaners needed?

Of course the unions want answers. Johnson's vague wiffwaffing is ridiculous.

Interesting Rainbow

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/24/schools-scrap-social-distancing-september/

If there's no SD in schools surely they aren't Covid-secure workplaces for employees?

Bubble system will apply to all 30 or so kids in the class

Doesn’t work for secondaries though. Did the article mention secondaries?

If there's no SD in schools surely they aren't Covid-secure workplaces for employees?

You’re right, there’s no way they could be considered secure by any current measure.

Teachers would also need to be 1m apart from pupils, not just staff