Breaking News - Germany fears second peak as R Rate heads towards 2.

[RapidRainbow]

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@Pussycatinboots

How do they track and trace someone who doesn't have a smart phone?

Over here people ring you if someone else names your as a contact.

@RightIsRight

If this was Britain it would be the end of the world and Boris would be a murderer but because it’s in Germany, it’s absolutely fine. There’s nothing to see here

It's staggering the double standard

Here you leave you name and contact details with your "host" (church, restaurant, hairdresser, physio etc.) they have to keep a list with name, date and time of your visit. They have to keep the list for a month to hand over to health authorites if neccessary. If not they may shred the list.
They are rolling out an app, but neither of us is in the habit of constantly carrying a mobile, so I havn't seen it yet.

@Pussycatinboots I was wondering that too with track and trace as I don't have a smartphone.

How do they track and trace someone who doesn't have a smart phone?

They use paper and pencil. People under a certain age seem to forget that the world used to function quite well in the years before everyone had a smartphone.

In the case of the local outbreaks in Germany factories, they get the list of all employees and their addresses, order them all to isolate and then send mobile testers round to them to take tests. This is how countries such as Germany and Austria have handled the crisis from Day One, while at the same time working on producing an app.

In the meantime, they isolate, visit and test the employees and their families (and also used the same method for care homes and hotels and other businesses that seemed to be hot spots) and ask them for the details of as many contacts as possible, who they then also go and test, while at the same time making announcements in the press and media telling anyone else who might have been in contact with the facility to also call a testing centre. This has worked extremely well, despite not being 'world-beating,' not taking two months to set up, not requiring the leadership of a Baroness and wife of a Conservative MP and not needing an outsourcing contract worth millions.

Sometimes the simple solutions are the best.

I too think all the links of outbreaks with meat processing factories and food markets is interesting!

In possibly related news, I just got a text from Ocado saying my order might have loads of subs because a warehouses was evacuated because of a nearby ‘incident.’

How much do you know about Germany, OP? This is a very localised outbreak and the immediate area has gone back into lockdown and all the schools were closed immediately (until they know which ones don't have any contact with anyone involved with the slaughterhouse.

And if i were in the UK i wouldn't be spreading panicky stories about Germany. I'd be concentrating on just how and why your own numbers are still so high.

I too think all the links of outbreaks with meat processing factories and food markets is interesting!

Tee hee! coronavirus!! Oooh it's spreading again!!!! Watch out!!

I take it you mean the explosion at the oil factory near the Ocado warehouse Gunpowder, which has absolutely nothing to do with Coronovirus?

explosion

Thanks PussyCat, I didn’t know. I hope the workers are ok.

@thedancingbear
What are you talking about? I literally wroye the bare heading that came up on the news I was watching!?!!! I also started original The Positive Mental Health thread in here. So why would I enjoy this?!

In fact there have been outbreaks at THREE UK meat processing plants, all reported this week.

Kober Ltd - Cleckheaton, West Yorkshire - 100 tested positive.
2 Sisters - Llangefni, Anglesey - 75 tested positive
Rowan Foods - Wrexham - 38 tested positive

Earlier in the year there was an outbreak at Cranswick Convenience Foods in Wombwell, Barnsley. 9 confirmed cases with 3 deaths.

In the US there have been plant closures at meat packing plants across the country:
www.meatpoultry.com/articles/22993-covid-19-meat-plant-map

It's important to put these in context. A lot of the German plants are staffed by migrant workers from Eastern/Southern Europe, who live on-site in massive communal dormitories. It's not necessarily meat, slaughter, or animals that's driving this, more likely the inability to socially distance on a production line, and the fact the workers are spending down-time packed together as well.

Tee hee! coronavirus!! Oooh it's spreading again!!!! Watch out!!

thedancingbear I think it is interesting.

If there’s a link between particular work environments (e.g a meat or food production) and outbreaks of Covid then people need to know. For example perhaps workers in meat processing plants need better PPE? If no one talks about it then how can we hold the government and business owners to account. It’s not like they all rushed to see a link between Covid and care homes is it?

Covid isn’t Voldemort and I don’t understand why you have an issue with people discussing it.

I literally wroye the bare heading that came up on the news I was watching!?!!

Headlines are often misleading and sensationalist though. It would appear that that is the case here.

@RedToothBrush

I think that’s where the media do fail in their jobs .

They never comment about the working or living conditions of the staff or the actual level of symptoms they are experiencing.

If the workplace is not “ covid secure “ is the HSE in their checking ?

Or is it because the living conditions and pay or the staff Is poor and they are bringing the infection in and causing high viral load ?

Should the staff be wearing more protective equipment if they can’t maintain SD.?

You get a report but no explanation.

@thedancingbear you are actually making yourself look a bit stupid.
It is interesting from a public and occupational health perspective. People need to know why these are such hotspots.

Crap I am getting pissed if with people keep saying about 2nd wave ... there will be clusters ! There is a new 1st 2nd and 3rd wave of mental health and ptsd nhs workers that is worse than the virus .. suicides now double

@RedToothBrush - someone mentioned up thread that it may be spreading more in meat factories because they are very cold.

That sounds a sensible reason to me.

I live in Germany and R0 has briefly been above 1.0 several times since lockdown started to relax on 4 May, with schools reopening pt

Slaughterhouses and places of worship have had a large number of outbreaks since and this is the largest

Noone here worries about R0 blips like they do in the UK
local outbreaks are just locked down locally, with rapid track & trace.
National R0 so far has always gone down again within a few days

The RKI says:

"Since case numbers in Germany are generally low, these outbreaks have a relatively strong influence on the value of the reproduction number.

A nationwide increase in case numbers is not anticipated."

Local outbreaks will happen too in the UK as measures are relaxed, but people need to get used to this
and to the localised lockdowns which follow

It's how we will all have to get on with life until there is either a vaccine or an effective treatment to prevent COVID symptoms becoming serious.

(the newest treatment is indeed a breakthrough, but only helps after the patient is seriously ill and only helps some of those)

@BigChocFrenzy

How is life over there now? Schools, shopping, parks, entertainment? All I'm full swing or still very cautious?

Berlin here (BigChoc is somewhere else)
Shops are no longer restricted to 10m2 per customer.
Local restaurants start to get customers again - Berliners have a habit of sitting outside in all kinds of temperatures. The night has become louder.
Schools break up next week for the summer.
And DD will venture out after staying inside since March to meet a fellow student in a café to work.
There is still a tradition of open air cinemas, but the 'Fête de la Musique' will be online.
We'll see ...

A lot of the German plants are staffed by migrant workers from Eastern/Southern Europe,

I work in an abattoir in another part of Europe. None of us sleep in dormitories, but it’s still high risk. We share communal changing rooms with people from all sections, so there’s no isolation possible.

People are from different places. They go home and visit family, then return on planes. They may not tell anyone they went if that means they have to quarantine when they return. One of my colleagues is currently in trouble as he has gone home and will have to quarantine when he returns, but other people have holidays booked, so he’s messed up the rota. Fortunately (hopefully) my workplace is quite strict.

In addition, to the cold atmosphere in some areas, it’s also noisy. Wearing ear-protection, and in a noisy atmosphere, it’s very difficult to communicate. The tendency is to get close and speak loudly. Plus being able to see someone’s mouth helps: effectively lip-reading. So the temptation to pull down your mask to communicate is high.

Where I work, we were all given visors, but they tend to steam up if you go from warm to cold. It also interferes with vision and assessing aroma.

I’m hoping to leave soon, but it’s no surprise to me that abattoirs are hotspots.

Schools have been open at least pt since 4 May - that's worked well

Merkel announced ft schools after the vacation (provided cases remain reasonably low)
but that was after a lot of consultation & planning

Childcare restarted 2 June and will run as normal during the vacation, so parents can work normally too

Gyms have been open since 16 May; also hairdressers, dentists, normal GP and specialist appointments.
Restaurants & beer gardens have been open a few weeks

Customers were definitely down, but the last week or two it's been more normal
The very elderly are not yet out as much as before

Masks compulsory in shops and on public transport
Social distancing pretty good - kids don't bother among themelves, but are polite about giving space to older adults (like me !)

People can meet in group of 10, so lots of kids playing 5-a-side football, or swimming in Rhine

Playgrounds in my area at least were never closed and exercise was not limited during lockdown,
so kids were able to play outside even during the peak

However, large events remain banned until 31 October, even outdoor ones.
That stopped all the wine festivals, fetes etc we would normally have

People here don't "fear a second outbreak"
The virologists here think we may avoid a 2nd wave in winter

We were warned there would be local outbreaks and how they would be handled:
localised lockdowns and rapid track & trace