Is grammar school entry even more unfair this year due to Covid 19?

[Randomnessembraced]

I know quite a few parents with DC in Year 5 preparing for grammar school tests and we have been discussing how their DC are affected. One DC very bright but mother a single parent (nurse) has had absolutely no time to do any prep with her DD and school is providing just links. Other parents much better off as have tutors online on Zoom and actually more time to prep due to lack of school. It looks like it is even more unfair than usual as Year 5 teachers who can usually push the brightest but less rich kids cannot do so properly this year. What do you all think and what and should grammar schools be doing to level the playing field a bit? Or did the same prep school kids/rich state school kids plus tutors always have the big advantage so it won't make much difference. It will be interesting to see what primary schools in grammar school areas might do over the summer holidays with any extra funding the government provide. In these areas, Year 5s should arguably have been those back at school just as in areas with infant schools and transitions it should have been Year 2.

People have always tutored for the 11+, starting a lot earlier than Year 5.

I am sure that there is some advantage for the better off children. However, from our experience, our son didn't need a lot of preparation for the 11+, and the exams are designed to test natural ability as far as possible. There should be familiarisation materials available from the grammar school. Parents can make sure at the very least that their child knows the format of the exam, and there is plenty of time left to do that. Also, some grammars do summer schools to help with access. I would contact the admissions department before the end of term and at least ask if they are aware of any way to help.

I think it will definitely be even more unfair this year for the disadvantaged children who wont even have covered the year 5 curriculum whilst some private schools will have had online teaching.

Those with well educated stay at home parents will have an advantage to those working. Presumably those in stressful home situations will have had an impact on their mental health which would give them less chance at the test as their confidence or usual motivation may be affected.

Not sure what the answer is but I dont think delaying it one month will make it any fairer as per some areas.

Yes it is. Then again, grammar schools never are there for the disadvantaged kids, even though that's what they are supposed to be there for.

There are proposals for tests to be completed in October so a month later in some counties.

These proposals also ask for the number of schools parents and carers have to put down on their child's school application to be increased fro 4 to 6 for the next academic year.

It's going to be an absolute nightmare for both admissions and particularly appeals - what evidence will schools be expected to provide? We won't have anything since March.

I wonder if places will be given provisionally based on scores and then pupils asked to sit entrance exams?

I know nothing about grammar schools so this may be a ridiculous suggestion but who knows?

In my area I suspect it will be significantly fairer for the local children as there won't be as many out of area children taking the test and bumping up the pass mark. And by out of area, I don't mean just across the border but the M25 tourists who get their children to take every test possible in the South East.

Mrs Wombat - Why do you think the out of area children wont take it this year? Due to having to select the school before taking the test?

Most parts of the country don't have grammar schools so they couldn't make school decisions based on the minority. Perhaps the fairest thing is to get rid of them and stop cherry picking the privileged off

@marcus242628 As far as I know my area is doing the test at the usual time at the beginning of September. I'm thinking parents might be a bit fussier over the number of tests and the distance travelled to get there so there will be lower numbers.

I’m thinking that children from private and good state schools with decent online learning are going to be at even more of an advantage than usual this year. Our area is looking at delaying tests till Nov but I don’t see how that is going to have much impact.

We've been concentrating more on 11+ than with schoolwork with our yr 5 during the lockdown, and he's also having Zoom tutoring. But I have wondered how others are coping if they are working a lot and not so much time to do schooling. In our area I think they're looking at October.

We have also been prioritising 11+ over schoolwork and the Zoom tutoring has been invaluable. Must be even tougher than normal without this though.

You are technically not supposed to tutor for the 11+ (I know lots of people do), but the test itself is made so that although familiarisation with style helps a bit a bright student should still do well on it. It is not a test of the y5 curriculum. It is basically an IQ test. So you'll have questions like:

Hand is to arm, like foot is to...
What is the next number in this sequence: 1, 2, 4, 7, 11, ...
You also get some pattern sequences.

Here are some example questions for anyone who is interested www.theguardian.com/education/2016/sep/09/would-you-get-into-grammar-school-take-our-11-plus-exam

The test is definitely open to being tutored. Firstly a child with no familiarisation will wonder what on earth it is on about (as I can clearly remember when I sat (and passed) it). Secondly there are parts which are reliant on knowledge as well as 'IQ' some regions have maths (which sometimes includes some of the yr6 curriculum) and English. The English section will favour those children whose parents speak with correct grammar and who hang out in pedant's corner. The Maths section will be unfair to anyone who is relying on a state education, although those areas which delay the test might at least be able to cover algebra and ratios this year. Even patern sequences can be worked on- for example 1, 1, 2, 3, will be recognised by those who know it as the Fibonacci sequence and they will quickly identify 5 and 8 next, likewise prime numbers, square numbers etc. Just knowing that sometimes the pattern alternates is useful. Or even it is useful to know that you are crap at number sequences and they take too much time so you skip them and answer some easy questions at the end.

Ultimately the grammar schools are less concerned about whether they select accurately the most intelligent 5/10/15/20% of the population, but more importantly that they select out those who are the least able proportion, so if a child is say in the 88th centile of population for intelligence (if it were actually possible to accurately test whatever it is that we call intelligence) and on the day due to tutoring, good exam technique, a bit of luck and not having missed any education due to lots of online teaching they pass even though the school only aims to take the top 10% it is no big deal for the school. The school has still selected a child who is probably capable of getting 8s and 9s at GCSE (although the parents might need to get a little tutoring at that stage but they have already shown their willingness to do that). The child has a track record now of being able to pass exams and respond to teaching. The grammar school is not too concerned that they missed out on a child who truly falls in the 91st centile but only scores 87% due to no education for 6 months, the parent was out at work and they could not afford a private tutor and the stress the child has experienced from their parent being on front line. It is not the fault of the individual school who might genuinely want to do their best for the community and has provision for those on pupil premium, but essentially a slightly different population won't have the same impact on the school as it will on the individual pupil.

There is still time if you are willing to help OP (assuming you are not the nurse). There are lots of resources on eleveplusexams.co.uk but yes in my opinion the selection process is not entirely fair and this year it is likely to be less fair than usual.

I don't think any selection process is ever fair sadly. It does try to avoid some tutoring bias, but you are right that borderline students will always benefit from tutoring. There are other barriers as well though, I did the 11+ with no tutoring (mum didn't even know I was sitting it), passed well and could have gone to one of the best grammar schools in the country, but went to the local comprehensive as that was the school I could get to. I was quite happy and did well, so it all turned out fine in the end.

I’ve been thinking the same thing. Even more skewed to those who can pay for tutors/private schooling during schools closed and/or have parents who have time, ability or inclination to help them prepare. Although who knows if the exam will even be done in the same way as usual this year. With mot children missing up to a term of year 5 they may work on a teacher based assessment.

Yes, grammar school entry is very unfair and yes this will be exacerbated by COVID.

It's naive to think that the 11+ measures some sort of "natural ability". It's a fundamentally unfair system.

In my area, it's possible that private school children could be at a disadvantage this year over state school children who have affluent parents with time who can pay for tutors and support their child physically with prioritising 11+ work. Our private school Y5s have had full online timetables of our normal curriculum which does not include any 11+ prep (we are a 3-13 school and don't encourage children to leave at 11). So our Y5s will have limited time to do extra zoom tutoring etc which primary school Y5s might have had.

Of course the most disadvantaged group will be the state school pupils with poorer and/or busier parents though. As always. Grammar school are definitely not the social leveller they were once intended to be.

The 11 plus has always been tutored for. My Great Grandparents paid for a tutor for my Grandad! I sat mine 21 years ago, DH 28 & most had some degree of tutoring. At the time we were prepped for it in school as well & it was sat in our own school on a weekday too (I think only 1 or 2 of my class didn't take it). He passed, I didn't. He only went to Grammar for 2 days, hated it & switched to the local High.

We've been working on it with dc1 since she decided she wanted to take it in y4. She does around an hour a day now. She actually quite likes the idea of attending the local High School but still really wants to take it.

At the moment I'm more concerned with how the exam will go ahead given the current situation.

Your assuming that all private schools are great. They are not.

We’re moving my dc to a new one which starts preparing for the 11+ in year 3

The idea that the 11+ tests natural ability is laughable. DD1 is an excellent case study. When DD sat CATs in Y5, she scored in the 90s for the NVR element. With 10 hours of tuition, and a lot of 11+ papers, she scored 141 in the actual Kent Test. There is absolutely no way she would have passed without coaching.

Should she have gone to grammar school, if she needed tuition to get there? Yes. And her collection of As and A*s in GCSEs and A levels is evidence.

I think selection will be even more unfair this year. Somebody like DD will benefit from lots of time spent on 11+ work, whilst another child who might be equally bright, and with supportive parents, but parents who don’t understand the 11+ format will lose out. This is a non Covid problem, but if we have to have selection, it should be tightly linked to the NC requirements - no testing the Y6 maths syllabus on a paper taken before it is taught, for example.

Yep I think it will be even more unfair than normal. Especially to children whose parents are trying to work and don’t have time to homeschool/ can’t afford tutors.

Yr 5 will have missed months of education. Those bright children who at school would have had extension work and been challenged won’t get that.

We’ve had more time at home to do11+ but only as we are not trying to fit it around the school day. So maybe not more overall it’s just less stressful trying to fit it in. I still think my Yr5 will be affected by no formal teaching for months. As hard as I try he would get more work done at school.

I was thinking the private schools would have more advantage than normal with their hours of zoom time lessons. Interesting point that it may mean less time to focus on 11+ though.

In our country they are looking to delay until beginning of Nov. Not sure how much it will help but I’m welcome of a bit more time.

I can’t think of any child of any child in my daughter’s friendship circle who got in without being tutored. This was over 10 years ago. It’s not an equal opportunity at all.

In our area most of the private schools are doing a full day of online teaching . Our state school is doing a couple of online lessons a day - I think we are very lucky to have that - lots of kids aren’t getting that . Private kids will have an advantage in the Maths/ English , they’ve also probably stayed motivated . My own child after all these weeks is not motivated . We’ve tried to do 11+ work and we’ve kept seeing his tutor weekly on zoom. Honestly though I think he has less chance of passing , I’ve learnt that he isn’t a self starter ; that he needs motivated peer pressure and that just maybe Grammar School isn’t the right fit for him anyway