Every child in every year group will return to school in September, Education Secretary Gavin Williamson has said.

[itswhereitsat]

I didn't catch the briefing but read the above comment in the news. The big question is, did he say whether children returning would be part-time or full time? Or did he just gloss over that bit?

[quote Uhoh2020]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras you seem to be of the opinion that because you and others are shielding then everyone must shield so it's fair. Theres no doubt those who shield have less opportunities in everything at the moment and that's shit no one disagrees with that but why should the rest of the country suffer as well unnecessarily ?[/quote]
I don't have this take from reading @Hearhoovesthinkzebras posts. I think Hear is saying - there are difficult questions that still need to be answered about shielding adults and children.

Indeed there are always difficult questions for community and society to properly address to use another educational one I'd point to adequate support for children with SEN even pre covid which often don't get the bandwidth they need because it simply doesn't come across most people's radar.

Now, as we emerge out of the depths of lockdown it is not good enough to say 'right lads lets crack on and you shielding lot work it out for yourselves'. Neither is it at all sensible to expect this government to come up with a coherent plan based on their pandemic pedigree so far.

I think it is important therefore - for us as a society with aspirations to be equitable and socially just, that we keep raising the difficult questions, particularly when they don't affect us directly and not be fobbed off by 'oh we'll have a think about that when we get back from the newly re-opened hairdressers'.

That was my take on hear posts..

Wonder what their plan is for primary schools with more than 30 in a class ?

Kids on the extremely vulnerable list got a government letter, just like adults did.

My daughter’s school risk assessment excludes her indefinitely.

(The AVI learning robots have been rejected by a number of U.K. schools on the grounds of privacy concerns - not sure if people will feel less cautious about that now that we’ve gotten used to Zoom meetings and Skype doctors appointments)

Utter bullshit Loot the information changes all the time. So you can bugger off with your fucking stupid remark and stick it

There are degrees of vulnerability, and risk.

I have heard different information for asthma.

Kids on the extremely vulnerable list got a government letter, just like adults did.

Thanks DuDu that’s what I was asking.

God can’t stand idiots like below on here.

Wonder what their plan is for primary schools with more than 30 in a class

I don’t think 30 will be a magic number-it’ll just be a class bubble.

It won’t just be 30, as there will be a teacher and maybe a TA on top if that, which is 32 minimum and there might be a mid day person as well. Many classes are over 30. They’ll just say classes of up to the normal size is fine but that class mustn’t mix with another class.

@MarshaBradyo

Utter bullshit Loot the information changes all the time. So you can bugger off with your fucking stupid remark and stick it

The information changes all the time...the virus doesn't. If a person with cancer/heart disease/severe asthma is at risk then they are at risk. They were at risk in March, April, May and now are at risk in June. The government deciding they want to say things are safe means fuck all.

And keep your own bullshit to yourself.

Ditto.

Adieu

myrtleWilson

Thank you.

That's exactly my point.

Moving on from that annoyance.

The question of medium risk for medically vulnerable is of interest. I like the idea below which separates shielding, but as pp stated what about other not as high risk. This depends on who is included and numbers.

@MarshaBradyo

Piggy how do parents know if their child is medically vulnerable?

Well in my case I know because my child’s surgeon has discussed it with me. He has a rare condition that isn’t on the official vulnerable list but involves his respiratory system. At the moment his surgeon is advising he remains at home. I’ll continue to follow the medical advice we are given.

Asthma is still on the clinically vulnerable list..
It may have been removed from extremely clinically vulnerable (shielded) i dont know.

I actually think CV is harder to work out than ECV as they need to stay home.
There are ababout 20m CV. And about 1/10 are asthmatic similar are diabetic. Some secondary teachers and parents over 50yo.
If many classes arent full now with limits of 10-15, i cant see all parents sendjng kids back to the same situation in sept

Surely we learn more about who is at risk and how the virus affects certain conditions as time goes on?

I actually think CV is harder to work out than ECV as they need to stay home.

Thanks for info Keep agree. Also factoring in age.

CV also includes a range of heart and lung conditions, such as heart valve disorders, congenital heart disease , cerebral palsy, too. Various childhood cancers, and so on.

Actually, I have checked the government guidelines now and they say PP shouldn't be needed generally, not that it is forbidden.

And, yes, I think 30 is just shorthand for "a full class" too.

At the end of the day if the restaurants near me are opening in a couple of weeks from now, with spaced out tables and no waiters in PPE, and the supermarkets are rammed and their staff are not wearing PPE, and whole families are milling round IKEA, they can't reasonably say the schools can't re open properly. People have to work, taxes have to be paid. Vulnerable old people are going to be providing childcare for single mums who need to go to work or lose their only income, and many many other women are going to lose their jobs, if they haven't already.
So while no solution is perfect, I really don't think there is a choice anymore.

Well, staff in supermarkets are behind perspex screens and elsewhere are able to maintain SD and aren't spending 15 minutes with a customer.

In a classroom the teacher is in there for six hours and also can't maintain SD so the two aren't comparable are they?

You are sheilding arent you Hears? So...you haven't been in a supermarket?!
There ARE perspex screens. The staff are NOT sat behind them at all times. They are in the aisles, stood in groups chatting, helping customers with the self check outs, and I don't know about anywhere else but mine is busy all the time, and it's not that big, and there's no way of social distancing.
So, yes, you can compare it.
My friends restaurant will have waiters in a fairly small dining room, with diners who are there 1.5 hours at a time, up to 30 different people per night.
Also comparable.
Plus, it doesnt really matter how you perceive it from inside your house, the world has to keep earning money, so that's what will happen, whether you want it to or not.

IfNotNowThenWhen2

I am shielding but I work in a supermarket so I'm talking to colleagues, I've spoken to my manager who has explained the measures that are in place and I'm speaking to friends and family who are going to supermarkets. The highest risk is spending more than 15 minutes in close contact with someone - I can't think of any time that I've spent 15 minutes in close contact with a customer, ever. 6 hours spent in a classroom can't be compared to two minutes at a check out or a brief conversation on the shop floor.

I'd actually like to see more thought come out after this about children who miss lots of big chunks of school regularly, I don't know how, but I'd like it to be considered

DS missed roughly a quarter of years 2 and 3 as he was on chemotherapy, and was either too unwell or too vulnerable to attend. He missed so much and he's never really caught up. In hindsight I wish I'd pushed for a little bit of help, he attended hospital school whilst he was in, but they just really consolidated what he already knew.

If we don’t get kids back to school soon the drain on the NHS from mental health support will take from other areas.

Nothing is going to be perfect. Kids have sacrificed enough. It has to stop and thankfully is now going to.

All teachers want their schools and classes back to normal - and they want that to happen sustainably, so that there is as small a chance as possible that a grand opening will be followed by a wave of school closures following outbreaks, or worse, a second peak.

In primary, IF the number of cases in the community is small, and IF money can be found for shielding teachers to be covered and cleaning to be stepped up, then increasing the bubble size is a sensible way forward.

No assemblies, staggered starts and breaks, reduced contact between bubbles, frequent hand washing - ie all the measures currently in place for the first wave of opening - will help. And if a case occurs within a bubble, then only that group is affected.

Secondaries cannot follow a bubble model, and staggered starts get very tricky with teachers working across different year groups. 1m social distancing only allows half the students in a classroom. So a full opening, even with handwashing, masks on transport to school, and increased cleaning, basically makes the whole school a single 'bubble' for transmission. So a few cases can close down the entire school, not to mention affect those sharing public transport with pupils. That does increase the chance of a rapid sequence of openings and closings in those areas where community transmission is higher.

OPENING schools is perhaps the easy bit. KEEPING them open, through ensuring the smallest possible number of cases, is harder.

The reality of just being in a class bubble is going to have a significant impact on learning in some (most) schools. To the point that I couldn't sleep last night thinking about the logistics of trying to cover all their needs, while also actually teaching them something, and also trying to close the gaps that will exist. There is no plan for TA support in my class next year, I'm sharing one with 2 other classes. So that won't happen. We cant recruit, so it's not about just getting more TAs in. I've got 4 children on the SEN register, 2 ASC, one runner, lots of children with behaviour challenges and 9 children who are EAL. I'm an assistant head teacher, teaching and learning lead and a SENCO. Ie, pretty fucking qualified for this stuff. I've discussed it with my partner and if it's not doable by half term I'm going to leave. I'm sure that'll make a lot of people here think 'Good, if you can't hack it etc etc', but consider this going on all across the country and we're in a mess.

Part time for term 1, check infection rates, staff cases etc, increase interaction between children, get back to normal quicker.

I think that we have to accept to get school it has to be different!

Secondary will have to give up streaming mixed ability all lessons and teachers move around the school not kids, There are no very practical lessons science is theory and video demos, and no food tech for example. Noit’s not great but it’s a hell of a lot better than not educating them full stop! Which is what we did for the last six months.

I think year nine should will realistically have very few options so option “groups” if you want to take history you have to take art type thing. Then split into groups of 30 It is not fair but remote learning has been too much of a disaster for us for me to not think it’s better than the alternative. I accept post 16 is a big problem I don’t know if remote learning goes is more effective for that group to enable It to work?