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Children don't spread coronavirus?

53 replies

Twinklelittlestar1 · 19/06/2020 09:28

I've worked in early years settings for two decades and it's widely appreciated how many bugs get passed around between young children because they are so tactile with others/ hands in mouths/noses etc. So the idea that coronavirus is somehow different and that children don't spread it just doesn't add up. I've read a few things backing both arguments (it feels you can get a study that proves the argument you want) but are there any science/ medical people who can explain why coronavirus would be any different to any other bug I've ever known which is passed so easily among children and onto their adults? Why would children spread it less so than adults when the opposite is usually true?

OP posts:
MilkItTilITurnItIntoCheese · 19/06/2020 09:45

I can’t answer your question but I also work in Early Years and this confuses me too! Interested to see what people say.

Adirondack · 19/06/2020 09:50

It’s something to do with children having fewer ACE receptors but I don’t know much more than that. I think children don’t get the ‘cytokine storm’ and massive virus particle shedding that adults can, but I’m no expert, so hopefully someone more qualified than me will be along to answer it properly!

Yobringbackthe90s · 19/06/2020 10:00

yes of course children spread it, for the first time since ive had a child ive not been ill because they havent been to school to pick it up, im not looking forward to picking it all up again, i rarely got ill before having kids.. recently heard about that young baby dying with the virus, its an awful thing if a child did get it bad, i can see why the schools are not back yet.. one death of a child would be too many

ItsInTheShed · 19/06/2020 10:06

I’ve wondered this too!

ohthegoats · 19/06/2020 10:14

are there any science/ medical people who can explain why coronavirus would be any different to any other bug

Not on here, no. Not among the scientists who work for the government, and apparently not among any scientists anywhere.

Mostly because this:

it feels you can get a study that proves the argument you want

.. happens.

Kirstie Allsopp however, she seems to know Hmm

starrynight19 · 19/06/2020 10:17

I would like to know this also. Like you say working with children you have to develop a very strong immune system as they spread everything.

Bol87 · 19/06/2020 10:27

I thought we’d moved past that thought & now accept children spread it?

It is desperately sad a tiny baby died this week however, it doesn’t change the fact children aren’t getting seriously from this statistically. You can’t keep schools closed because I think 8 children have died in the whole of the UK. Children very sadly die everyday of many other things. Including contagious illnesses. Even chicken pox kills. For most it’s mild, much like coronavirus, but for some it’s not & children die. But we don’t even offer a free vaccine for it despite one being available!

Shinebright72 · 19/06/2020 10:31

I think the idea came about as it is mainly adults that have died. I do believe the theory that children are not the super spreaders because like your saying children in nurseries pass all other bugs to each other.

Apple40 · 19/06/2020 10:32

I also work in early years and have said the same thing, how fast, tummy bugs, Nits, worms , chicken pox , hand foot and mouth etc spread I can’t see how this would be any different. The true is they don’t know as all kids been at home in lockdown not together in childcare and school settings.

TheLastSaola · 19/06/2020 10:43

It is absolutely true that children are horrible germ spreading swamp monsters - which is why viruses like influenza, rotavirus and norovirus get spread so widely in schools.

If we were in the midst of a flu pandemic then you would see schools as the main clusters of transmissions.

But we aren't seeing that.

Children almost certainly can spread coronavirus, but it is equally clear that they are not spreading it as much as they normally spread other viruses.

Possibly the amount they spread coronavirus is at such a low level that it is statistically insignificant compared with adult-to-adult transmissions, and so it is unnecessary to have any restrictions on children. That is a very hard thing to prove definitively though.

Kellen · 19/06/2020 12:32

I’m confused as to how, given that (globally?) the majority of schools shut down, and children were massively taken out of circulation - much more so than adults who had to go out to work, etc, there’s enough evidence of children’s/schools’ impact on the spread. Sure I must be missing something!

Shinebright72 · 19/06/2020 12:38

The schools didn’t just shut down. The government put everything into lockdown as it was probably a state of panic and poor organisation. This was not about education or any kind of risk it was merely to take pressure off of the hospitals as they could not manage and didn’t have the bed capacity available

Many kids are going to school now and my child has been attending school/hub since March. I’ve not heard that any schools have shut down due to the kids falling ill of COVID in the city that I live in.

cremuel · 19/06/2020 12:41

There seems to be evidence growing that people without symptoms (who either haven’t developed symptoms yet or who have the virus symptom free) can spread it but are very unlikely to. Children seem to often/usually be symptom free. From this I would deduce that children can spread it but are unlikely to spread it much.

Sleepyblueocean · 19/06/2020 12:42

Isn't it because they generally have less symptoms so are not coughing and snotting everywhere like they do with colds. They are still infectious but not to the same extent as with other illnesses. Covid 19 also isn't as infectious as some other diseases

ohthegoats · 19/06/2020 12:43

But we aren't seeing that.

Because children aren't at school for the most part.

Refer to this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3940271-Have-there-been-any-cases-in-schools-since-reopening?pg=2

Also:

I've had a look at the ONS data on deaths up to 20th April by occupation. This was a report updated on 11th May.

At that point, 66 women who were carers, had died of COVID. 32 men who were carers had died of COVID.

They are not the largest occupation group by deaths, but they are comparable for school staff - particularlt LSAs/TAs or nursery staff, or special school staff.

Anyway, that's 66 women. 12.7 deaths per 100,000.
At that point, there had been 43 deaths of woman who worked in schools - 11.6 deaths per 100,000.

For men with those 32 deaths, 32 deaths per 100,000.
For men in schools 17.9 deaths per 100,000

You can't blame teaching unions, or school staff unions for trying to protect their members with those numbers in mind - we're not very different to care home workers, and they are wearing PPE and are NOW very much in the public sphere of concern.

Of course we don't know where school staff catch it, but same could be said of doctors or care home employees.

Also, from PHE this week:

24 outbreaks were from hospitals where 21 tested positive for SARS-CoV-2

24 outbreaks were from schools where 12 tested positive for SARS-CoV-2

Yet in hospitals everyone now has to wear a mask all the time, even if you're even a COVID-clean building or just there for an ingrowing toenail. Schools, no PPE.

Redolent · 19/06/2020 12:45

Because this virus is NOT like the influenza or flu. It simply doesn’t operate in the same way, its shirt and long term effects on the body are completely different also. The UK’s pandemic planning was centred on the mistaken assumption that it’s a flu-like virus when it’s actually more akin to other multisystem disorders like syphilis. So it makes sense that the idea of children being the main spreaders also isn’t true.

Bol87 · 19/06/2020 12:46

I do agree that surely asymptomatic people must shed the virus less surely?! If you aren’t coughing, sneezing or blowing your nose etc, then you can’t be shedding it that much?! I know it’s in droplets of saliva so you could spread it by talking or breathing heavily etc but surely a lot less than a cough expulsion?

Shinebright72 · 19/06/2020 12:54

Teachers can not teach in PPE. It’s difficult to communicate effectively with a mask on your face. Plus a flimsy blue mask, gloves and a plastic apron will not stop you from getting the COVID. You would need a different type of mask to start with and it’s medical so teachers do need to accept that.

It’s not fair on the kids. How can teachers want to wear gloves and come into contact with a classroom full of kids UNLESS they are willing to change gloves between each child.

It could do more harm than good (cross infection). You also need to hand wash why is this not looked at more rather than this obsession of PPE.

No nurse sits at the nurse desk wearing gloves or when writing documentation this is not done in gloves!!

Redolent · 19/06/2020 12:57

@Bol87

I do agree that surely asymptomatic people must shed the virus less surely?! If you aren’t coughing, sneezing or blowing your nose etc, then you can’t be shedding it that much?! I know it’s in droplets of saliva so you could spread it by talking or breathing heavily etc but surely a lot less than a cough expulsion?
This is a piece in the New York Times that explains how talking can produce over 1000 virus particles a minute, and that they can linger in the air for over 10 minutes. I think the researchers in the study do clarify that coughing and sneezing expel far more virus particles. But it’s an interesting study nonetheless.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/05/14/health/coronavirus-infections.amp.html

MRex · 19/06/2020 13:01

There are several quite ropey studies. The most likely reason is that they're less likely to catch it due to having less ACE2 receptors, and if you don't have something you can't spread it. The range of viral load for infected people by age group was the same, I can't find the study right now but it was a similar pattern the whole way from 0-80+. The percentage infected for under 10s was tiny, and lower even up to about age 25.

Silversun83 · 19/06/2020 13:17

@Sleepyblueocean

Isn't it because they generally have less symptoms so are not coughing and snotting everywhere like they do with colds. They are still infectious but not to the same extent as with other illnesses. Covid 19 also isn't as infectious as some other diseases
Yes, I think it is pretty much accepted that those who are asymptomatic/have fewer symptoms are not as contagious. Which is common sense when you think about it as they're not coughing/sneezing everywhere!
ohthegoats · 19/06/2020 13:35

I'm not suggesting teachers wear PPE at all. I'm just comparing carers to teachers (in particular EYFS teachers).

so teachers do need to accept that

Is everyone else just accepting that their job will put them at risk of getting this thing? Or is the government and their employers helping them assess this risk appropriately?

Did you write the Daily Mail headline 'Let teachers be heros'. 'Let teachers be thrown under a bus next' more like.

Redolent · 19/06/2020 13:40

@Shinebright72

Teachers can not teach in PPE. It’s difficult to communicate effectively with a mask on your face. Plus a flimsy blue mask, gloves and a plastic apron will not stop you from getting the COVID. You would need a different type of mask to start with and it’s medical so teachers do need to accept that.

It’s not fair on the kids. How can teachers want to wear gloves and come into contact with a classroom full of kids UNLESS they are willing to change gloves between each child.

It could do more harm than good (cross infection). You also need to hand wash why is this not looked at more rather than this obsession of PPE.

No nurse sits at the nurse desk wearing gloves or when writing documentation this is not done in gloves!!

That’s why my preference is for all secondary school pupils to wear masks in the classroom (with medical exemptions).
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