WTAF schools...

[SoberCurious]

My friend who works for the DfE says they are planning for kids to go back to school in December 😭😭😭

My brother also works in the dfe and says that they are planning for all eventualities as nobody knows what will happen regarding the virus' behaviour and governmental decisions.

*You missed

These hours cannot be done outside of the 195 days of term time and inset days.

And teachers have been working.*

OK, so the government just has to declare that, due to exceptional circumstances that, say, August 1-31 this year is to be deemed as extended "term time". It would be easy enough to legislate.

And whilst teachers have been working, most have not been fulfilling the contact hours that they are required to do under their contract, but have still been paid in full for them. For the majority what they have been doing since March would sit under the (sorry can't remember the exact wording) other tasks required to support their role, which is specified in contracts as additional to the specified contact hours. Those teachers who have been in school with the key worker children and vulnerable children, or who have offered a full online day obviously won't owe hours, so shouldn't be expected to work over the summer.

Contractually, most teachers owe contact hours.

Contractually, most teachers owe contact hours.

Really? Have you counted? How would you know if I do? (I don’t.)

I don't want to be pessimistic but if we hit a devastating recession, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if schools would cease to exist in the traditional format. The curriculum can be taught for a fraction of the current using the Internet. Councils could sell off valuable land for a bit of extra cash. I'd hate this but it is a possibility.

@mrsm43s

Teachers have 1265 hours of directed contact time.

But surely teachers who haven't been in school full time since March, and haven't been offering full days of online lessons haven't fulfilled their contracts and still have a lot of hours of contact time that they owe?

Add up all the contact hours that teachers have been paid for under their contract, but still owe, and I'm sure that would allow most schools (well the ones who haven't offered good provision throughout) to offer a period of summer school staffed by those who owe hours. (or I guess teachers could pay back money they were paid for the contact hours they haven't worked, and supply teachers could be paid for from this).

Contracts work both ways.

Completely agree. Teachers should get paid for the hours that they work

Woohoo! I can retire! I have been teaching since 2001. The hours I work, and have worked, in order to teach, plan, mark, write policies and schemes of work, organise trips, resource etc. are at least double the hours I am pupil facing.

I cannot wait to get the pay I am owed for all the unpaid hours.

Oh and WE HAVE BEEN WORKING!

*current cost

mrsm43s

Contractually, most teachers owe contact hours.

Nope it is up to schools to direct them during the specified time frame.

Why do you think that the government is so keen to try and get retired, teachers, teachers that have left the profession and supply teachers in?

Because they know that they can't demand that teachers work holidays.

OK, so the government just has to declare that, due to exceptional circumstances that, say, August 1-31 this year is to be deemed as extended "term time". It would be easy enough to legislate.

Can't be done because the 195 days are already set in the contract that the government has to work to.

My brothers dog who works for the DFE told me that schools are run by the unions and they won't be going back ON PURPOSE because they hate us. It's nothing to do with capability or space. It's because they are evil. We should pay teachers nothing and it's all their fault. They hate our children.

Or something. I don't really know because I couldn't see to type through all my ranty self interested spittle. Whatever the reason, private schools are doing zoom lessons.

SaharaSarah

The curriculum can be taught for a fraction of the current using the Internet.

This would only work if you could guarantee attendance and that the work would be done. And we already know that the take up of work is not 100%

@mrsm43s I find it insulting that you suggest teachers pay back money or staff summer schools for free. What about paying school staff for working during Easter and half term looking after key worker children? Schools already rely on good will (e.g. staff buying essential resources like glue sticks using their own money) but I fear this is a step too far.

My school has not allowed live lessons to be taught. Instead we had a huge list of tasks to undertake during lockdown when not working in school with key workers children. We have to provide evidence to the head teacher they every task has been completed.

I am now back in school teaching all of my regular days and planning good quality lessons for my key worker group. My contract will be fulfilled without the need to pay back wages or work during the summer to make up time.

^Really? Have you counted? How would you know if I do? (I don’t.)*

Because contact hours are based on the children being in school, and are calculated on the full school year.

The majority of children have not been in school since March. Some have, and some teachers will have worked full time looking after the key worker and vulnerable children. But the majority have not, since the majority of children have not been in school.

In schools where a full online programme has been offered, then of course, the full number of contact hours has been fulfilled. But equally, since children have received a full education (albeit online) then catch up summer school wouldn't be needed.

I obviously wouldn't expect any teacher who has already fulfilled their contract to work additional hours. But those who have not fulfilled their allotted number of contact hours, but have been paid for them still owe them, surely? That's how contracts work - BOTH sides need to meet their obligations.

for those concerned about this please consider writing to your My and to Gavin Williamson. the government's lack of action on this matter is an absolute disgrace and should not be tolerated. I have written the letter on this thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3931348-Those-concerned-about-ongoing-lack-of-education-in-Spetember-and-onwards

MP, not My!

Oh God I hope that's not true.

I was hoping to do my pgce next September but I'm seriously rethinking going back to work ever. I need work experience before I can apply and if teachers arent happy to go back before then how the hell will I be allowed in? Plus what kind of experience is part time babysitting?

Plus the fact that I have my kids who's education is going down the shutter.....

mrsm43s

Because contact hours are based on the children being in school, and are calculated on the full school year.

They are directed hours, not contact.

So no.

Saharasarah you forget the hidden cost of internet teaching every child needs supervision.

Parents would end up clubbing together to pay for nannies or teachers to supervise children.
Therefore you'd end up with a school system you have zero control over and the BBC providing education that's probably very good but ignored by the teachers.

Oh dear - full pay for teachers to continue sending wekly emails to me telling me to read with my child (you don't say, I alreday did that!) aand to watch BBC BiteSize and when I question this poor home school provision get the 'don't worry he's young (year 4) he will catch up again when he comes back' - totally useless school.

Perhaps Dept of Education pay the schools that are actually providing decent online/home schooling provision and put the rest of the teachers on furlough at 60% pay since they are doing bloody nothing

I've been teaching for over 30 years (and nearing retirement, actually, so I will quite happily walk if I don't like what I see thrown at me), and at a rough estimate, have probably done well over double my contact hours over the years.
Do I have to pay anything back?

@mrsm43s That is not how directed time works. I have had less face to face contact time with pupils but will have met my quota of directed hours by undertaking tasks at home set by the head teacher.

Some of the teachers have been working - others have not.

Local school they are on a rota the ones not vulnerable and shielding work 1 week in 3 - yes the school is open for KW children and now yr 6 - didn't want the other suggested years 'it wasn't safe'.....

So working 1 week in 3 is not working really hard is it.

DoingMyOwnThing

Some of the teachers have been working - others have not.

You have no idea what some teachers have or have not been doing but they will have been directed to do it by the school that they work at.

Our school has over 600 pupils, it hasn't opened for reception, year 1 and 6. I'm getting worried they won't be able to in September. Wishing we'd chosen a small school now.

@DoingMyOwnThing do you know what tasks the head teacher has directed the staff to do at home? Teachers in my school have had to account for their working hours and provide evidence. Some of the tasks we have been directed to complete include data analysis, writing subject guides to provide evidence for Ofsted, additional professional development and wider educational reading (many more hours than usual) resource and rewrite all of next year’s schemes of work to take into account the gap in learning, plan a recovery curriculum for children coming back to school, phone every child in class and set home learning activities for children working at home. Parents would only ‘see’ the home learning and phone calls so you cannot say that sone teachers have not been working with any degree of confidence.

Teachers on MN are the new "SAHM" targets aren't they?

I'd imagine the few teacher who have 'been doing nothing' during lockdown won't be able to facilitate the whole school coming back over the summer so what's the plan b?