Can’t see how children will be able to go back to school in 2021

[Ouchy]

Let’s face it. The R0 may not be controlled for months. Vaccine unlikely until 2021. Teaching unions up in arms. People unwilling to accept the risk of the virus (low for many). I’m getting more and more concerned and the government haven’t published any forward plans for how school can be restarted in the various scenarios we may be facing come September (have they?). What on earth are the DfE and the Education Secretary doing during the working week if they’re not planning this stuff? Is there something I’ve missed - am I mistaken? I’m getting more and more concerned. The children are low risk - there needs to be a plan and fast as their educations and social development are being kind of ignored for something they’re super low risk for as individuals themselves. Looking for reassurance really - am I mistaken or being silly?

[greathat]

@BakewellTarts someone's already linked a document. Not the one I saw but similar figures

[Beawillalwaysbetopdog]

This will effect the poorest children worst. Middle class parents will pay for tutors and private schooling. Those children will never make up the gap unless something is put in place to close it.

I agree, I've written to my MP about it and asked them to do fsm vouchers over the summer.

I'm assuming you've done the same?

[ATomeOfOnesOwn]

I don't think the issue is lack of forward planning. The issue is that people don't want to accept that there is no safe way for schools to go back yet.
We're in Scotland, our school is saying we're likely to be using online schooling even after Sept.

[cantkeepawayforever]

Niholoxica,

For week 22, Public health England says (p8 of this document) assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/889981/Weekly_COVID19_Epidemiological_Summary_w23.pdf

8 outbreaks of acute respiratory infections in hospitals (6 tested +ve for COVID)
15 outbreaks in schools (9 tested +ve for COVID).

Note that this is BEFORE any wider opening - in fact, it is during half term, when schools were only open for keyworker childcare, and the numbers even in that childcare were probably lower than normal. I don't know what date the outbreaks were from, however, as it simply says they were reported that week - so my guess is from the previous 7 days or so, so the last week of keyworker / vulnerable childcare in schools.

It will be really interesting to see how that figure changes as wider opening takes place.

[Beawillalwaysbetopdog]

[quote greathat]@BakewellTarts someone's already linked a document. Not the one I saw but similar figures [/quote]
That was me.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/889981/Weekly_COVID19_Epidemiological_Summary_w23.pdf

[Bollss]

It's all well and good saying outbreaks in schools but is that proof children are passing it to teachers? Or are teachers passing it amongst themselves?

Presumably we will never know?

And in one week there's been 15 outbreaks (what consists of an outbreak? 2 cases? 20? 100?) In the whole of the UK.....

Does that warrant children getting a part time education for months more? Years more?

Imo, no.

[dairyfairies]

I really hope we are back to normal. I have a child in primary who is very reluctant to do work at home. I have a teen with complex SN and an EHCP but school is not taking her (special school where all children have ehcp). She is completely refusing to do any sort of work at home. I am also WFH all week as we have plenty of work and HR is refusing to put me on furlough despite my DC's needs and no help (lone parent). I am on my knees, my DC have zero education. There are millions on similar shoes. It just isn't sustainable in so many ways.

[BakewellTarts]

[quote Beawillalwaysbetopdog]the stats this week: 15 in schools 8 in hospitals

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/889981/Weekly_COVID19_Epidemiological_Summary_w23.pdf[/quote]
Thats an intyeresting data point. What about all the other data points and the trend? As I said all the reports I have read suggest the infection rate around schools is very low. As we know one data point is not useful in isolation.

[Beawillalwaysbetopdog]

@TrustTheGeneGenie

It's all well and good saying outbreaks in schools but is that proof children are passing it to teachers? Or are teachers passing it amongst themselves?

Presumably we will never know?

And in one week there's been 15 outbreaks (what consists of an outbreak? 2 cases? 20? 100?) In the whole of the UK.....

Does that warrant children getting a part time education for months more? Years more?

Imo, no.

It's more than hospitals (8)

Should they go back to normal?

[greathat]

I have kids in primary school I want everything normal and want them back playing with their friends. I want them back doing their clubs having their play dates, but I'd like there to be a reduction in daily cases and deaths too and that won't happen if we all race back to how things were pre lockdown

[Bollss]

It's more than hospitals (8)

Should they go back to normal

In a word, yes.

[NeverTwerkNaked]

I am happy if the children can't physically go back to school. But I am not happy about no one educating them while schools aren't physically open.
So by September I would like proper online education in place or a sum of money from the govt so I can purchase education online for my children

Because worksheets and Oak are not an education. Let's not devalue what teachers do by pretending that they are.

And both the UN declaration and the UK HRA enshrine the rights of children to an education.

[NeverTwerkNaked]

And I love and enjoy teaching my children but both DH and I have demanding full time jobs.

[cantkeepawayforever]

I know everyone wants children back in school full time - believe you me, so do the teachers.

Rather than saying 'this MUST happen', please could you explain a safe way to do this, that is safe for:

• All those who run school transport, or take the same public transport as schoolchildren
  

• All children of school age (and i do mean all)
  

• All adults who work in school - teachers, TAs, office staff, cleaners, technicians
  

• All families and close contacts of school children, including elderly grandparents, those who are extremely medically vulnerable etc?
  

Obviously we need to work within reasonable constraints - it is unlikely that school buildings will be doubled in size in the time available.

Rather than saying 'oh, it will be safe, children don't transmit' or 'there are no outbreaks in schools', can we come up with real, concrete proposals that allow this to happen in such a way that, say, the risk to everybody in the above list is no higher than it currently is for the under 10s?

[Beawillalwaysbetopdog]

Bakewell:

Thats an intyeresting data point. What about all the other data points and the trend? As I said all the reports I have read suggest the infection rate around schools is very low. As we know one data point is not useful in isolation.

Maybe it's low because numbers of kids are low and SD is in place. The risk in school in previous weeks is vastly different to everyone back, especially in secondary schools with all the mixing of groups.

I'm still waiting for the list of countries with death rates near to ours (or even not) who have thrown all the kids back with no SD.

[Nihiloxica]

More outbreaks in schools than in hospitals?

When almost all of the current spread of the virus in in hospitals and care homes?

Right.

[NeverTwerkNaked]

@Rainbow12e the vaccine won't have been rolled out by September!

[CaptainBrickbeard]

Nihiloxica bringing back retired teachers is another very stupid idea (not quite as stupid as teacher redundancies and cutting teacher salaries, though maybe!) given that the older you are, the more at risk you are from this virus. Grandparents can’t hug their grandchildren yet - of course they can’t be sent into classrooms of children and no PPE. Good grief.

[Beawillalwaysbetopdog]

@Nihiloxica

More outbreaks in schools than in hospitals?

When almost all of the current spread of the virus in in hospitals and care homes?

Right.

Have you looked at the link?

Are you doubting Public Health England?

[cantkeepawayforever]

[This is for September, so we should assume no vaccine, and also a significant level of virus still circulating in the community because of the effects of releasing lockdown in R and thus the number of new infections]

[Beawillalwaysbetopdog]

and no, nowhere near care homes - 111 :(

[Bollss]

I'm still waiting for the list of countries with death rates near to ours (or even not) who have thrown all the kids back with no SD

Sweden?

They haven't closed schools and somehow not all of their teachers immediately dropped dead.

[cantkeepawayforever]

Has Sweden had 40,000 deaths? Does it still have over 1,500 new infections per day? Are their schools as crowded as ours?

Rather than saying 'Oh, x country has done it', I am looking for solutions that work in OUR schools, with OUR crowded classrooms, with OUR population densities.

[Beawillalwaysbetopdog]

Sweden have 10 times the deaths of their neighbouring countries.

Schools weren't closed to protect teachers, they were closed to protect the community.

The guy who came up with swedens policy has admitted it was a mistake. Any others?