I think the children of this generation...

[TheDailyCarbuncle]

Will, in future years, legitimately ask us why we let them down so badly. Why we allowed them/their peers to be left at home for months with abusive/neglectful/drug addicted/alcoholic parents, with no outside contact, no adult help, relief or respite whatsoever. Why some of those children disappeared, never to be seen again, or were so badly hurt as to have years and years of horrendous struggle ahead of them.

It's only now beginning to be talked about, months too late: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52876226

When everyone is talking about 'protecting' children, where is their concern for those children for whom home is a dangerous place? For whom school is their only sanctuary?

I was trying to be at least a tiny bit positive!

@MarginalGain - I don't think I believe blindly in 'the science'. When the advice was to allow Cheltenham and the Liverpool-Madrid game to go ahead I completely questioned it. I think my problem is that the evidence is selected according to the chosen narrative. We were told that the pandemic wouldn't be downgraded until the five tests had been met and that the R was very important. The five test have not been met and we are now being told that the R is not so very important after all.

Incidentally, I have been at work (as a teacher) for my full working week (three days p/w) throughout the lockdown. I have been happy to go in and feel that the numbers have been safe. I strongly disagree that this is now the right time to reopen schools to much larger numbers and don't think that the chosen year groups make any sense. Schools should have been encouraged to open up to more children of workers who need the childcare and more vulnerable children but the government were taking a complete gamble in this strategy.

To be fair, German schools are not back in any "normal" form. My friend who teaches over there says she is taking groups of 12 and is only in 3 days a week.

But at least they are back in some form for the secondary school kids.

She also confirmed that a lot of her pupils arrive on public transport.

Genuinely interested if anyone posting here against reopening schools isn't a teacher! Plus if they're not what are you reasons?

@couldyoubeanymoreme - it's likely that most are teachers on this thread because they feel qualified to comment on what the OP asked. In my broader social circle of not-teachers, no one is queuing up to send their child back to school but they wouldn't be drawn to a thread like this because it doesn't reflect their experience.

I do think it's interesting though that people are so dismissive of teachers saying that schools should delay reopening. You wouldn't question a nurse or doctor saying that their work place had become unsafe and most public facing non medical jobs in the private sector have some element of protection (I'm not talking full PPE but screens, gloves, visors, whatever).

Why would you not listen to the people who are in that environment day in, day out and have continued to be in that environment during the current pandemic when they are saying it's not that we don't like work- it's just not safe enough yet.

Ha ha. As a 'nurse or doctor' myself. We don't get the option to say if our work is safe. We reduce risks as best we can. And get on with it

I understand what you are saying OP.

My dad was abusive. Nobody knew. I wasn’t on any vulnerable lists. SS were not involved. I didn’t get free school meals. I never told anyone. But school was my safe place. Being at home with my dad all day, for 10 weeks, with no friends to see and nowhere to go, would have been hell on earth for me.

@couldyoubeanymoreme I beg to differ. The newspapers were full of stories from the frontline, it was a national scandal that adequate PPE hadn't been provided for hospitals and absolutely rightly so. If your unions had said that your workplace was not safe then the country would have been 100% behind you and absolutely rightly so.

Supermarkets, as one example, have taken it upon themselves to organise safe shopping etc. Their workers would not have been prepared to work in unsafe conditions and absolutely rightly so.

There are a multitude of reasons why schools shouldn't open more widely in the way that they are. There simply aren't enough staff or space in many small primary schools to cater for all of the children eligible to come back.

The bottom line is, the government was clear about what needed to be achieved before we moved to the next stage and we have not achieved it but yet are marching forward anyway.

I feel I’ve been saying this for so long, since before Easter and no one including medical mum friends has thought about it until recently.

Close everything else down but if needed but get kids back to schools. Garden centres and golf and premiership football but not playgrounds and schools.

Children seem to have come bottom of the UKs response and it’s shit.

Statistically as a country we have fucked over a generation of children and young people to (fail) to prevent the deaths of a small proportion of the adult population.

couldyoubeanymoreme

But you do say when workplces aren't safe. There are care staff talking tobthe press and the government saying it's not safe we need x, y and z. I know family members who are nurses who have been raising concerns from the start and vocally doing so and this has brought about change within wards and the overall hospital, such as more than 1 mask for 12h shifts, atients waiting for results not kept in non covid open wards etc, all changed due to staff saying they would not work with these unsafe practices . To do nothing would be remiss and actually potentially dangerous to staff and patients.

Challengine conditions that are not safe are part of our jobs, part of the responsibility we owe to our clients, (patients/children) both care staff and education staff are coming up with ideas on how to make things safer and workable. Sometimes on social media you only hear the worry and frustration, you don't hear about the brilliant idea that means we can get an extra class back in or a game that kids can play safely etc.

If, as you say, you get no oppertunity to raise concerns over your place of work I would rather not visit as a patient. Certainly nurses like teachers can be personally taken to court over incidents and nit raising a safety concern would end a teachers career.

I work with two country councils in my job, one has been fantastic following up vulnerable kids, sorting a meals program, keeping special schools open, encouraging those eligible to attend. The council website is positive and Suggests where to go if you need support.

The other. It’s awful. Closed all special schools and stopped all respite care for kids with disabilities. Schools have not contacted vulnerable kids - both EHCPs vulnerable and on social services register vulnerable. Council website just says - services closed due to pandemic, no advice or help. No encouragement of schools to provide work or follow up. Vouchers for fsm for supermarkets that aren’t available for rural families.

Kids in the second council area are getting a very raw deal.

When it is compulsory for every child to attend school
School isn't compulsory in the UK though.

And also it’s not all about schools.

Heath visiting has been stopped in some areas. So after the midwife discharges at 5 days of age no one is now seeing that baby until their vaccinations at 8 weeks. Then they are not seen again until .....well when lockdown ends. How many mums and baby’s won’t make it I wonder? The “shaken baby” figures may be horrid.

There are toddlers out there who have learnt to talk during this lockdown that have never spoken to another adult that their mother for months and months There are kids of a similar age who won’t remember anything beyond the one room bedsit they live in - they won’t know grass or sun other than through a TV - not just because the parents are feckless but if a single mum is shielding she can’t take the kid out can she? How does a child learn to run, ride a bike, sit at a table, draw, play with toys, play and interact with other children if none of these are available?

It’s a dystopian experiment in how to screw up the development of thousands of children

It's 2 months.

Its not months and months. Its two months. Two months where a baby/toddler only talks to its mum (and hears tv/radio/its dad/grandparents/aunts/uncles on the phone) is not going to cause longterm damage.

Children will know grass and sun because its only 2 months. They wont look back on their childhood and remember no sun ffs. A toddler will barely even remember this period.

They will still learn to ride a bike, maybe 2 months later than they would have done but they will still learn, they will still learn to draw, they will still learn to run and play.

Childrens lives have been interrupted to save lives of adults, potentially adults they are close to.

I really think a period of two months off is not going to cause significant harm to the majority of children. I dont think this generation of DC have been fucked over. Currently we have only had a break from education thats slightly longer than the school holidays! (In some countires like greece and usa the same length as their summer holidays)

My DS5 is not a at risk child at all, but he's a only child, and whilst I don't really care about the 15 or so weeks education they will miss I do feel for him that he has had no meaningful social interaction with other children for such a long time now 😔 and it's just me and him.

I do hope here in Wales they will open up in September for all children.

Except it’s not 2 months. It’s “until it’s safe” (whatever safe means), “until there’s a vaccine”, “until Sept/Christmas/Sept 2021”...

And it’s nothing like school holidays. In school holidays we can go places, do things, see people, play with friends.... Apart from going on a walk or bike ride there is absolutely nowhere I can take my children and no one they can play with - no family or friends houses, no shops, no leisure facilities or museums or libraries, not even basic playgrounds. Absolutely nothing.

You claim to be "a former teacher" . I'm not sure why exactly you think schools are solely responsible for abandoning vulnerable children and what teachers should have done when the government ordered all schools to close. Those of us who still do the fucking job - unlike you, apparently - are very well aware of how shit life might be for some of our pupils. And we are doing the best we can for them.

But you blame everyone else so you can feel that you are the only virtuous one who cares. Perhaps if you were still teaching you could have made a difference to some childrens lives. Oh...but you don't..

Explain that to the children of this generation why don't you?

How could we have done better OP? Given the unprecedented events and speed of lockdown?
Genuine question.

@endlesswashingbaskets @eachdubh

I do understand you must be worried about going back. But you're fighting a losing battle. Arguing with strangers on MN about health and safety won't help! I'm sure you both realise pretty soon all children will need to return to school. And be in the existing classrooms. With the existing staff.

It will be ok. People who have worked throughout have realised you get used to the new normal very quickly.

Let's start putting children first rather than last. They'll thank us one day!

*Abused children will experience it as an undiluted experience of a wider picture of pain and trauma. It’s actually morally remiss to leave this to cash-strapped, target driven schools which are primarily set up as places of learning not social welfare.

Fuckwit parents, chaotic households and addicts should have the greater scrutiny in their parental responsibilities and be held accountable. If schools have any role to play, it’s not propping up and prolonging poor parenting*

I agree with this.

And at least the UK has left schools open for vulnerable children. That's not the case in other countries in lockdown.

@UncleFoster

There are critical periods in a child’s development that can’t be learnt later. Some may never catch up.

It’s two months now but when will it end? It will be 5 months by September - nearly a quarter of your life if your‘re a toddler

I've been talking about it since late march.