Am I missing something?

[theginge]

I feel like I'm the only person wondering whether covid is the biggest threat now...

Everyone is worrying about lockdown being eased 'too soon' and for some I understand this is a valid concern. The deaths that have happened are really sad and it's horrendous for families to loose their loved ones but there seems to be little context. The general public have been scared by the media propaganda and have lost all ability to reason and self regulate.

My primary concern is the other effects this is having on life. My middle child is in reception and therefore entitled to return to school. He desperately needs it from a social and emotional point of view. The risks to me seem quite low (we live in a small village where there have been not a single case and the school is small and in the village)and our local hospital has never been working at capacity at anytime during this pandemic. The issue I have and the reason I've chosen to keep him off school is the way that schools will re-open. The school sent home a huge list of changes they will implement which in all honesty sound horrific. The children are being treated like leppars. This is going to have a huge effect on all of these children long term and (in my mind) be far more damaging than catching covid for us. What children need to protect them now is some normality.

My baby is 6 weeks old, he hasn't met any of our family. He is no longer a newborn and they have missed this - I can never get this time or opportunity back. Again, a huge sacrifice for what I deem to be a small risk.

My husband lost his job the same day as our baby was born - he was made redundant because his employer could no longer trade and the business collapsed. His job was skilled but very specific so will be difficult to find a new job in the sector.

Every measure in place seems to go against natural human nature and I'm just really fed up of making such big sacrifices for a virus that has a mortality rate of 0.2%.

The lockdown was put in place to not overload the health care system and not to get rid of the virus!!

Don't even get me started on the whole 'clap for carers' thing. It's just annoying and serves absolutely no purpose. Nobody has been forced into working for the NHS or in social care - it's 100% an informed choice (I'm a nurse and many of my colleagues are of the same opinion!).

onedayinthefuture I don't think schools are being restrictive and heartless....I think they are doing their best to manage risk in an impossible situation and scared to death that they'll have the arse sued off them if a teacher or child suffers a serious consequence of covid and the school has not taken all necessary steps. Sometimes in public services you're damned whatever action you take....too much or too little.
The best a parent can do at the moment is to normalise what is happening for their child and take the scariness out of it as far as possible

@Redolent I think it’s fairly easy to distinguish simple courtesy from exaggerated horror.

Yes it is a completely different virus but
How infectious it is
How deadly it is
Is very very similar

---

It's not very similar because it doesn't affect the young. Spanish flu killed a high percentage of young people. There was a world war at the time, living conditions and hygiene measures were extremely different to what they are now. We now have modern medicine and healthcare facilities. They did not have the same back then. I do understand, however, that we are learning each day about a completely novel virus which, I am hopeful, in the long run, will not pose as serious a threat as it does now to the vulnerable.

[quote Sadie789]@WTF99 if I’ve learnt anything over the last few years it’s that life is really fucking short.

People like you that I am apparently extending lockdown for (I’m not, lockdown is being eased) are also people like my parents who are both ill with other serious illnesses that still exist in the time of COVID and I am not going to let the strange moves of an inconsistent government and a points scoring little hitler in my own country make what time we all have left, limited, weird and unpleasant.

A cleaner who literally could not have cleaner hands because she is using them to clean and is not working in the same room I am in does not need to walk about in a mask and gloves if she’s happier doing her job without them.

If you think that she’s going to breathe on a cushion and I’m going to catch it from that later while I watch TV, well...[/quote]
This is where I completely lose the will to discuss the matter. I will post a scientific article instead on what we know about the virus being airborne.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-coronavirus-spreads-through-the-air-what-we-know-so-far1/%3famp=true

“According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the World Health Organization, the novel coronavirus is primarily spread by droplets from someone who is coughing, sneezing or even talking within a few feet away. But anecdotal reports hint that it could be transmissible through particles suspended in the air. After attending a choir practice in Washington State in early March, dozens of people were diagnosed with or developed symptoms of COVID-19 even though they had not shaken hands or stood close to one another. At least two died.”

This is why I find the fixation with washing shopping but complete refusal to wear masks so ludicrous. But hey ho your cleaner can crack on because she’s got clean hands.

@redolent the advice constantly being reiterated is to wash your hands.

You can find any article you like on google to support your “scientific argument”. Still doesn’t make it true. There are 100 other scientists who will argue different.

[quote TempsPerdu]@Redolent

You’re probably right; I’m sure there are some people who are moving aside out of courtesy. I try to where I can. But I don’t like the way children have become persona non grata in most public spaces. Twice now I’ve been asked by older ladies why DD is out at all when she’s been firmly strapped into her buggy and we’ve merely been walking around the park. I’m worried that this attitude to - almost fear of - children and young people will continue for as long as social distancing is maintained.[/quote]
That’s really rude and inexcusable. I’m sorry you experienced that. I’ve been more fortunate I guess. And with a toddler I know too well how important early development and socialisation is.

@Newmama29

But there are no real easy answers here, and certainly not a recourse to explanations on how it’s because we are British, or how it’s because of our media, or how because people are gullible in the UK. I’ve had enough of British exceptionalism which seems to suggest like we’re the only country in the world going through this.

And I think the key word in the section you’ve quoted there would be “anecdotal”.

[quote Sadie789]@redolent the advice constantly being reiterated is to wash your hands.

You can find any article you like on google to support your “scientific argument”. Still doesn’t make it true. There are 100 other scientists who will argue different.[/quote]
Whose advice? Boris Johnson’s, to two rounds of happy birthday? We all know how well that worked out for him.

You actually refuse to engage with any evidence and just use throwaway expressions like ‘100 scientists’. That’s why I said it’s pointless discussing with you. It’s just an emotionally laden tirade in every thread.

@WTF99 but some schools are when they have openly said in their communications that they cannot comfort a small crying child and that the parent will have to take them home. Some schools are making it so unworkable for many kids to be able to return. If they don't want the kids back, can't they at least he honest with the parents rather than throw in so many obstacles. I have seen evidence of some schools however providing really useful FAQ's on their websites and producing some vlogs to help alleviate parents and pupils concerns but then negative attitude seems more prevalent.

It's not very similar because it doesn't affect the young. Spanish flu killed a high percentage of young people. There was a world war at the time, living conditions and hygiene measures were extremely different to what they are now. We now have modern medicine and healthcare facilities....

I agree it's a completely different virus but
Its infectiousness
How deadly it is
Is very similar

@Redolent I suppose I only use “British” as I read threads on MN with some British people asking about certain situations they want to undertake or that their neighbours are taking part in (that appear to be extremely low risk) & the majority of people are underneath commenting “THATS AGAINST THE RULES!!!!”

I just feel that people have to make their own informed judgements & risk assess situations instead of jeopardising their mental & physical health for the sake of some “rules” created by a government that cannot even follow their own guidance.

Yes I agree too. I’m really horrified by the sacrifices we are asking children and young people to make. I think it’s likely to lead to huge resentment from them in future, towards their parents’ & grandparents’ generations, when they realise the cost they’ve had to pay for lockdown. Particularly when you consider how difficult life was for young people anyway!
A society that treats its children and young people like this has gone very wrong.
Very glad to see others feel this: there’s huge social pressure to pretend otherwise.

@Redolent took me less than a second to find an article that counters your belief it’s airborne.

What’s emotional about that?

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/is-coronavirus-airborne

You can’t just throw in a link to a random article you found and present it as fact.

I walk most days and do move aside for others out of courtesy, as fsr as it is safe to do so. Early in lockdown, we had the whole road, but now the roads are busy and the nettles are fucking huge, so if we pass within a metre, we pass within a metre! I react badly to nettles.

@Flaxmeadow you are probably on the wrong thread.

sadie you need to put that cushion in a sealed bag immediately and then burn it

Seriously, I'm just saying that it's important not to disregard the advice given by the CMO and the CSO....they are the ones worth listening to. And yes of course people will shape and interpret some of that to suit themselves and their own assessment of risk....but ffs apply the principles so that you don't get infected and you don't spread the risk to others...

And if other people want to keep away from your buggy....well it's a free country and they can....I would too...not so much because of your child but because of you!

As for lockdown being eased...it hasn't been for those of us who are shielding....and I've been avoiding social contact for much of the time since I started chemo in June last year....I was just getting my life back when...boom! Covid! ...and I've had to stay in again....so if you could just stick to the rules so I can go out again sometime this century I'd be ever so grateful....ta very much!

Also I’m in Scotland so it’s the government information films that we are being shown on repeat that tell us to wash our hands. Not Boris.

@Flaxmeadow you are probably on the wrong thread

Why?

As for the airborne nature of coronavirus - the biggest mass outbreaks have been situations like call centres and choirs where people have been vocalising a lot together in a confined indoor space. I think if a crop of cases had been linked to walking past someone a bit too close or a trip to tesco, we'd have heard about it.

@Ilovemystarter

Yes I agree too. I’m really horrified by the sacrifices we are asking children and young people to make. I think it’s likely to lead to huge resentment from them in future, towards their parents’ & grandparents’ generations, when they realise the cost they’ve had to pay for lockdown. Particularly when you consider how difficult life was for young people anyway! A society that treats its children and young people like this has gone very wrong. Very glad to see others feel this: there’s huge social pressure to pretend otherwise.

Ffs....I'm.pretty sure that the young people in my family will understand that these measures were taken to protect them and to protect the people that they love.

Yes it's hard for us all and but would have been better if it hadn't happened....but it did...and we're dealing with it.

If it was airborne everyone who worked indoors would have got it before lockdown.

If it was airborne there would be no way to contain transmission within hospitals (so the COVID and non COVID ward system all UK hospitals are using would be pointless).

People using any form of public transport would have got it at the start and continued to get it throughout lockdown and then more as lockdown eased.

None of these things are happening.

I agree with you OP. To a point. I wouldn't be happy in a bar or in a lecture theatre but we could go camping FFS. At the beginning of the lockdown I was masked and gloved (correct usage ) but now that we know more about the spread and the R number is low this needs to be drastically loosened. I'm in Wales so I can meet another household soon. Locally though. I am not supposed to drive the 11 miles to see my partner

@PickAChew

As for the airborne nature of coronavirus - the biggest mass outbreaks have been situations like call centres and choirs where people have been vocalising a lot together in a confined indoor space. I think if a crop of cases had been linked to walking past someone a bit too close or a trip to tesco, we'd have heard about it.

How many of the 1000s who have died work in a call centre or sing in a choir?

@Northernsoullover

I agree with you OP. To a point. I wouldn't be happy in a bar or in a lecture theatre but we could go camping FFS. At the beginning of the lockdown I was masked and gloved (correct usage ) but now that we know more about the spread and the R number is low this needs to be drastically loosened. I'm in Wales so I can meet another household soon. Locally though. I am not supposed to drive the 11 miles to see my partner

The R number isnt low....its hovering below 1.....

[quote Sadie789]@Redolent took me less than a second to find an article that counters your belief it’s airborne.

What’s emotional about that?

www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/is-coronavirus-airborne

You can’t just throw in a link to a random article you found and present it as fact.[/quote]
Have you read the article? It doesn’t counter that claim in the slightest...It literally just summarises the evidence, confirms that yes it is spread through aerosols (so not helpful to you, unless you’ve banned your cleaner from talking inside your house), says that asymptotic people may spread it, but then again they may not. Some people say masks help, but some people say not necessarily. It’s structured like a GCSE English Literature essay.