So when can we go to second homes do you reckon

[frillyfucks]

I've seen holiday cottages available to book from 4th July, but when can we as one household move from our first home to our second home for a change of scenery?

I've resisted so far as one of our neighbours down there is older and very cautious about the virus but I'm desperate to get down there, do some gardening, enjoy the place again.

They got that wrong didn't they!
That article was written on 19 March. I would've questioned their conclusions even then. London might have more beds but it also has a vast high density population including more vulnerable elderly than anywhere else in the UK.

Since the time that article was published we've seen London alone in the UK temporarily change hospital admittance thresholds.

Government was crazy not to put some restriction on distance you can travel for time outside.
How could they put internal restrictions whilst we have international travellers coming in? If they imposed internal restrictions people could get around that by taking a return domestic flight then travel from the airport to their UK destination.

allowing second home owners to stay but not to permit holiday rentals, as a compromise between lockdown and no business

Well, I heard the same via someone who works in the council. But not in this stuff, and just in a 'chat'. I assumed it was them guessing same as everyone else. Not sure it's easy to police though.

If I'm travelling from a rural area with no cases or case history at all, to another rural area with no cases or case history at all. Why can't I travel there?

I live in Scotland and have a second home around 1.5 hours away on the East coast. We were there for Feb half term then quickly nipped up for a night the day before we went into lockdown to empty the fridge and pack up.

We are desperate to go even just for the day to collect the post, clean the windows and weed the garden. I don’t want to think about how abandoned it probably looks. Also most of my summer clothes are there and we are having a heatwave. DH wants to collect some sport equipment and tools that he left there.

However there have been some posts on the local community page complaining about the volume of ‘strangers’ in the village. I believe the police have been called out a few times. We won’t go until it is allowed but our insurance will be invalid and we have to stay a certain number of nights per year or pay double council tax.

It's difficult to know.

Obviously it's fine now, as long as you drive along some country lanes to test your eyesight and reflexes first.

However, once the highly efficient track and trace system is set up, which will be able to target local clusters with laser like accuracy, I think it may depend where your second home is.

@ToffeeYoghurt it’s a separate issue isn’t it? Had a distance restriction been put in place, with a requirement to carry proof of address, police could spot check a load of people on a beach for example, to see where they have travelled from, with fines if it is more than (say) 10miles. Travellers without an address here would I think be very few and far between, those coming in would be largely British Nationals coming back from overseas?

@ToffeeYoghurt it’s a separate issue isn’t it? Had a distance restriction been put in place, with a requirement to carry proof of address, police could spot check a load of people on a beach for example, to see where they have travelled from, with fines if it is more than (say) 10miles. Travellers without an address here would I think be very few and far between, those coming in would be largely British Nationals coming back from overseas?

I live directly between a large, city hospital and a rural, tourist hospital. If driving myself to hospital (or a loved one), I can pick where to go. If I have to go in an ambulance I would imagine they would take me to the city hospital as it has more specialist units, not because they fear overwhelming the rural hospital. The large urban hospital usually has more capacity issues than the rural hospital, probably because the number of specialist units that it has and therefore receives referrals from other areas. The NHS in general has capacity issues. This is why we have waiting lists and a 4 hour wait at A&E (during normal times).

I live in an area that has had very low infection rates. Regardless of that, I’ve been working at home now for 10 weeks, my husband 9 weeks. We’ve not socialised with anyone, other than delivery drivers and the neighbour from a 2m distance. We still go food shopping in person as we’re not vulnerable but have maintained social distancing. We’ve been socially distant on walks. Our risk of us having covid-19 is minimal and therefore our risk of taking it somewhere is also minimal. I’m willing to bet that the majority of people who can afford second homes have also been working remotely for the last 9 weeks and probably also low risk. These people with second homes can support the local economy, which all tourist areas need at the minute. The city and the rural tourist hotspot that I live between are both tourist spots and both areas have had businesses that have already folded because they aren’t getting the visitors. The city is going to be the one that is hardest to enforce social distancing when they try to reopen.

it’s a separate issue isn’t it? Had a distance restriction been put in place, with a requirement to carry proof of address, police could spot check a load of people on a beach for example, to see where they have travelled from, with fines if it is more than (say) 10miles. Travellers without an address here would I think be very few and far between, those coming in would be largely British Nationals coming back from overseas?
It's the same issue. If the concern is about potential spread of infection. Why would it matter whether the traveller was British or not? Covid doesn't care about nationality when it infects.

As it happens around half of the international arrivals aren't British citizens. Some weeks ago the government confirmed a minimum of 95,000 people had arrived in the UK during our supposed lockdown. (18 million came in between January and March). Of these people only around half, 53,000, were British citizens. And the British citizens include those who had, pre pandemic, relocated abroad and no longer keep a permanent UK address.

The nationality is irrelevant. They are free to travel from the airports often on public transport to their UK destinations. With no checks or quarantine before they do so. If they can do this, it's unreasonable and pointless to forbid the rest of us from also travelling across the UK.

I'm from a rural, coastal area with a lot of second homes.
So you've moved to a city to add to the under pressure resources there.

I'm 46 - I've lived elsewhere since I was 18. HTH.

We have a second home in north wales and having experienced the welsh health care system we will not be going anytime soon just in case. 6 hours to get an ambulance to us with a 6 month old struggling to breath with just a petrified first responder with us. Couldn’t drive to the hospital in case he stopped breathing on route as it was 1.5 hours away. Worst night of my life.

@ToffeeYoghurt I agree but initially they did tell people not to travel (beaches/beauty spots remained relatively deserted, almost no one, international arrivals or otherwise, appeared to be going there) and then they said no limits at all...cue packed beaches, massive queues for toilets and literal crap left everywhere, obvious potential for transmission...

@Worriedmum999 If you're further than 5 miles from your second home in north Wales, you're not allowed to come to it anyway.

Welsh Government restrictions are currently far more stringent than England, largely because the R-rate is higher.

Slightly boring now... we know wales is different

Also @ToffeeYoghurt my argument is somewhat the same as yours with regard to logic (or lack thereof), what possible difference can it make between driving to a popular location every day, and staying overnight?

Well, we're here. I just came to the conclusion that we do actually own it and as long as we stick to the government guidance on social distancing etc, we're not a risk to anyone - if anyone wants to report us then so be it. We did call our other neighbours before heading here to discuss with them and both said they were relaxed about us coming down, slightly less so about tourist season, which I do understand.

I can't get too concerned about the "pressure on healthcare" argument. We live rurally in Lincolnshire, our second home is an hour away in Norfolk. The healthcare in both counties is very similar, both being sparsely populated rural counties.

The hostility that the locals in wales are giving to any would-be visitors and second home owners makes me think their tourism economy might suffer greatly after this.

@frillyfucks good for you!

@HeronLanyon that’s really shocking and really sorry to hear you’ve had to deal with that.

This is what I was worried about with going to our second home - I would have flouted government advice but I was more terrified of local reaction! I’m actually really sad about that as the locals really do see us (the tourists or other second home owners) as outsiders and really push the “them and us” attitude. Our house and presence of car in the drive are very obvious and there is such a strong feeling of being terrified of COVID and outsiders. I get the feeling none of them have actually known anyone with coronavirus and that they have lost sight of the fact that the vast majority of cases are mild and you won’t immediately be struck down just by touching a gate post if you sanitise your hands after. I’m from London where the R rate is now one of the lowest in the country - I think the locals still think of Londoners as the infected ones. Thank GOODNESS the government changed travel advice so this can warm up everyone to the idea of visitors. My cottage is also a holiday let and I’m preparing for 4 July but if I wasn’t so scared of the locals, I’d go now! I don’t dare for fear of being blacklisted in the village! Bloody hypocritical if you ask me - all this “anti-outsider” feeling and now they’re all worried about local businesses and the tourist season.

Has anyone said how dare you talk about a second home when some people don't even have a first yet? If not then I'll start.

We live 1.45mins from our south coast holiday home. I don’t call it a second home as we can’t afford to spend much time there so it’s rented out most of the time. I’d love to visit with the kids now for a few days as it’s booked out most of Th d summer. We’ve followed all social distancing rules at home and would do the same there. We don’t suddenly lose our minds when we leave home. We would order the odd takeaway and walk on the beach. If we felt ill we’d go home in a heartbeat, virus or no virus. So part of me thinks ‘do it’ but the other half is scared stiff of the reaction from locals (many of who’s livelihood depends on tourism) who have been so venomous on social media about tourists.

I've travelled back to my home but I was half way through relocating from my family home to live with my dp when lockdown hit ( I was doing 3 nights at family home 4 nights at his) I had to go to my office to fetch paperwork and grab summer clothes! I don't feel bad because I would have been permanently moving by now, lockdown meant the job I was meant to start at the beginning of June fell through, why should I also be stuck 100 miles away? Unlike dc I'm not driving to beauty spots!

@frillyfucks The annoyance in Wales is because second home owners are breaking the law to come here - don't you understand that? The police turn visitors from outside the area away if they catch them.

It's the same as the Dominic Cummings situation - you can't have one law for some and another for others (especially a different law for wealthier people,).

A near neighbour has been been going to and fro his second home in Looe for weeks now.

Another neighbour, self isolating in Street, moved back to her main residence in Cornwall about a month ago.

There is zero enforcement or clarity on the law, so do as you see fit seems to the only "rule" you need to follow.

Van Tams intervention yesterday is pointless because he is saying what is morally right not what the law says or precedent.

@Abitofhelplease I completely understand, I suppose every thread I open there seems to be five or six posters yelling "don't come to wales" and really, I think we get it? Not that I tend to go to wales anyway 😂

@Cherrypie32 it's shit that the local hostility is keeping you away - I agree, if you're using your common sense and acting reasonably it shouldn't be a problem. I can guarantee second home owners will be creating significantly less agro than the beach day trippers - did anyone see the photos of durdle door yesterday?!

@Coronabored not sure whether that's sarcasm or you genuinely are that ridiculous.

The annoyance in Wales is because second home owners are breaking the law to come here - don't you understand that? The police turn visitors from outside the area away if they catch them.
Was that how Neil Kinnock got caught? When he travelled from Wales to London then back. Did the police catch him or did it come out another way?

Out of interest. I assume key workers who live more than five miles away from work or people travelling to provide care to somebody vulnerable are allowed to travel in Wales? Or from England to Wales in those circumstances?