Test and trace - verification and scammers

[WhyNotMe40]

If we are to have unknown callers ringing us to inform us of contact with a positive case - how will we know they are who they say they are, and how will they know we are the right person?
If they ask identification questions then that gives an opening for scammers to extract information from the vulnerable.
Is anyone else wondering about this?

[antisocialdistance]

@crosswordocelot

Depends whether you are classed as a close contact or a casual contact. Just being in the same salon, or working in the same office as a confirmed case does not necessarily mean you’re a close contact. For that you would need to spend some time in close proximity to the infected person. If it’s the receptionist you say hi to as you walk past and don’t see again for the rest of the day, you’d probably just receive a notification that there has been a case at your work and to get tested if you have symptoms. If you are also a receptionist and sit next to her all day, you’ll be a close contact and required to self isolate. As far as practice this means not interacting with other members of your household. However they don’t need to quarantine too unless you show symptoms and/or test positive.

[user1495884620]

Or you might be feeling like crap in bed (or in hospital on a ventilator) and want to rest and get better rather than rapidly ringing, emailing and texting all the people you've been in contact with.

If you are on a ventilator, you are hardly going to be chatting to a T&T person either.

[Bufferingkisses]

What worries me is this idea that it is "civic duty" rather than compulsory. I work for the NHS so they will have to comply but, I suspect, many many other businesses are going to say "it's not compulsory so it's not paid".

It's just another ill thought through scenario which will end up causing more poverty for the people who can least afford it. The government need to legislate to force employers to support staff - or do it themselves.

[manitobajane]

We will give you a number you can call that will verify us.

Which I won't be phoning if I think you are a scammer will I?

[daisychain01]

@NELass

We get the contact details from the person that’s been tested positive

What from some random bloke off the No 9 bus?

How does that work?

[NELass]

@manitobajane

We will give you a number you can call that will verify us.

Which I won't be phoning if I think you are a scammer will I?

It will be the number we phone you from. You will hear a message that puts you in no doubt as to who is calling. The calls won’t be from a withheld number. We will then phone back at a later time.
I really don’t get the mistrust. It’s to get life back to normal and it’s Public Health England running it.

[JamieLeeCurtains]

What number will show up on people's phones when you ring them, NELass?

Every time I get a call from my GP, hospital or working-from-home person these days it flashes up as 'No number ID'.

[Ifailed]

it’s Public Health England running it.
I thought, as usual, it had been outsourced to the likes of Serco, who, as usual, will cut corners and do it as cheaply as possible?

[GirlCalledJames]

They are calling people because they don’t trust people to tell all their contacts.

[manitobajane]

I really don’t get the mistrust. It’s to get life back to normal and it’s Public Health England running it.

Outsourced to acme inc no doubt ?

[EnlightenedOwl]

Its ridiculous and isn't going to work.
How did we slide into this
Cure must never be worse than disease. We are walking over a cliff here

[EggysMom]

@JamieLeeCurtains

What number will show up on people's phones when you ring them, NELass?

Every time I get a call from my GP, hospital or working-from-home person these days it flashes up as 'No number ID'.

DH doesn't answer his phone to numbers other than those saved on his phone, so he's not going to answer this call. Mind you, he doesn't mix with anyone anyway

I'm puzzled that if you are contacted, it's your civic duty to provide details of those with whom you've had close contact. (1) I'm not having any close contact because I'm still carrying out the other civic duty of socially distancing myself, but (2) I don't necessarily know the mobile number nor the email of those with whom I'm might come into contact. So do I have to remember to open every conversation with "Before we chat, can I have a note of your phone number?"

Yes I'm cynical. Watch me take the DC approach to this step, which will be interpreting to suit my personal family circumstances.

[GrimmsFairytales]

@QueenofmyPrinces

I don't really understand - If I had the details for the people I had been in contact with wouldn't I just contact them myself?

Exactly - I find it baffling.

Plus, what about the potential to lie? What’s to stop me telling the T&T person that I’ve been in touch with x, y and z, when I haven’t just so they could have two weeks off work?

My sister would love two paid weeks off work....

There’s so many possibilities for the service to be abused.

I said similar last night when it was announced. It's ripe for abuse / scamming others.

Plus, what about the potential to lie? What’s to stop me telling the T&T person that I’ve been in touch with x, y and z, when I haven’t just so they could have two weeks off work?

My sister would love two paid weeks off work....

This is also a very valid point. You're relying on others to provide the information, so there's going to be misuse / misinformation.

[TabbyMumz]

Is public health England working with Wales and Scotland with regards to people who live in one and work in the other?

[Fallsballs]

What happens if you don’t answer your phone, how many times do they try and do they leave a voicemail ? I think it sounds like a disaster.
Must tell elderly mother to watch out for scammers yet again 🙄

[Comenext]

I don't think this is ever going to work for many reasons.
People don't answer calls from strangers.
People don't want to self-isolate anyway. Why would they?
In my view the whole concept of test and trace has been thought up by very naive 'experts' who like the sound of the alliteration. It is a quick-fix idea which will never be fully implemented in practice.

[cathyandclare]

@comenext

It's anything but a quick fix. It's laborious and painstaking. What way do you see out of this then? As far as I can see there are a few:

1. Lockdown, wait for a vaccine, which may not come.
   
2. Gradually loosen restrictions and hope for the best.
   
3. Gradually loosen restrictions, track and trace to identify clusters of infections and lock them down.
   
4. Shield the vulnerable until a vaccine is available, and let low-risk individuals work etc.

[iVampire]

I think the possibility for scamming is high.

Telling people that it is OK to hand out personal data that is not their own, simply because someone rings up and asks for it, is a charter for harvest by scammers and future phishers

The message needs to be always verify who you are to before handing over any personal data, whether yours or someone else’s

It is naive to think that the scam will occur only during the harvesting data call

[QueenofmyPrinces]

I’m assuming this T&T service relies on people with symptoms being tested?

Who is to say a man who is relatively well in himself and has a bad, persistent cough, will actually go and get himself tested? He may not want to get tested because he knows a positive result will impact on him going to work and possibly losing two weeks pay.

I really do see the thought process behind T&T and obviously want it to work but I think it’s relies on an honest public which makes worries me as to how effective the system will be.

I know no service is perfect and it can’t pick up every positive case and we just have to hope the majority of society will be compliant.

[Weepinggreenwillow]

How does this work for NHS staff does anyone know? I'm an NHS clinician, seeing outpatients in a clinic setting. Always for more than 15 mins, sometimes less than 2M apart. If I was asked to give details of people I had had contact with I wouldn't be able to due to patient confidentiality. Also, will I be expected to self isolate for 14 days every time a patient I have seen gets COVID? If so there will be no staff left in my depertmentnquite soon!?!

[Comenext]

Sorry @cathyandclare but I have lost all faith in this Government. Never had much to begin with.
Perhaps 'quick fix' was the wrong phrase. I meant 'catch phrase'.
Test and trace is the best method that has been used elsewhere but whether OUR Government can make it work remains to be seen.
The timer is ticking ...

[countrygirl99]

Anyone who doesn't think scammers won't use this is being naive. Scammers know fear is a massive driver to get people to hand over information and they can be very convincing. There needs to be clear and extensive publicity via all media channels about how this will work and what will be asked to minimise the number of people who hand over information thinking they are doing the right thing.

[QueenofmyPrinces]

I’m assuming that if contact occurred in an NHS setting it will be disregarded as it will be assumed the NHS member of staff was wearing a face mask.

On my ward all the staff wear masks but none of the parents do (I’m in paeds) so if a parent is asymptomatic but infectious (we are getting positive results for them) then they could easily pass it on to the other children and their parents in the bay. The beds are not 2m apart and the parents naturally get friendly with each other and don’t stay 2m apart from each other, especially if the children are playing with others. Plus, the children are all playing with the same time that are being handled by all the parents etc etc

So many opportunities to pass the virus on.

I’m assuming that all the parents of other children who’ve been near an positive person would have to be informed and that the nurses/doctors on the ward would have to provide the details of them?

To be honest, I imagine a lot of us would prefer to phone the parents ourselves and tell them as opposed to hand over their personal details to someone on the end of a phone.

[happypotamus]

weepinggreenwillow are you wearing a surgical mask while you see your patients? I work in an inpatient setting and wear a mask all shift. I imagine that when outpatients clinics return the staff will be wearing masks there too. Test and trace only ask about people you have been in close contact with while not wearing PPE apparently.

[QueenofmyPrinces]

Children are all playing with the same toys