Why are primary schools obsessed with social distancing when it’s not a requirement?

[whenthejoyreturns]

I’m sure I’ll be told I’m stupid but I’m genuinely confused.
Our local primary will only allow 8 in a class because apparently there’s not enough room to socially distance more. I thought dc were supposed to be in bubbles of 15 or so dc. Why have our primaries gone down the route of sitting dc at desks spaced 2m apart?

@mascotte I haven't stopped working - I am a nurse.

"There is no expectation for there to be social distancing."

Also to add to that, PPE is not seen as necessary either.

Hmm.... there isn't any setting where those conditions exist. It's amazing how 2M social distancing is required everywhere else in the country barring hospitals and care homes (they have PPE) yet it's perfectly okay for schools to go without either.

Either we all need to keep 2M apart in all settings or we don't. You can't pick and choose when it suits you....

@sophiestew I was asking about schools going back

When the scientists agree that the virus is under control to the extent that social distancing is no longer required.

@sophiesstew that could be many mo the away. What about the children?

Months

Have you considered starting a similar thread about why supermarkets and delivery drivers are operating to the same guidelines?
there isn't any setting where those conditions exist. It's amazing how 2M social distancing is required everywhere else in the country

Do you seriously think any supermarket worker has a hope in hell of social distancing from anyone else in the store?

Because the guidance tells them to social distance within the small group?

What happens if there is no vaccine? Will 7 to a class (so approx. 25% of usual classroom schooling) just happen forever?
When will it otherwise be safe enough? Is it based on a R number? If so what is it?

To be 'as safe as possible' would be to continue with lockdown forever - that's not sustainable.

I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand the 'end game'. Is it just that we buy more time to try to understand how dangerous it is to teach kids in school? Or is there an expectation there will be a vaccine? Or that the virus will die out like SARs did? Or something else? It's not coming through clearly in the news I've seen/read.

Depends more on room size surely.

I wish that people would do more research rather than taking an opportunity to slag off the teaching profession. We are constantly being compared to Denmark’s schools but we couldn’t be in a much different position to them. They have a death rate of 97 per million people and ours is 542, third in the world. Denmark’s schools have been adapted and additional handwashing facilities made available, we have not. Children are in groups of 5 and then 3 for playtime, ours are in groups of up to 15. I am amazed that people believe that we don’t need to distance ourselves in school but everywhere else it’s necessary. That and the fact that the government have chosen a plan that has actually not been modelled by scientists rather than choose one of the 9 scientifically modelled examples says it all. These are the people who allowed the care home scandal to happen whilst saying the risk was low and we are expected to trust them on schools??

@herethereandeverywhere

I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand the 'end game'. Is it just that we buy more time to try to understand how dangerous it is to teach kids in school? Or is there an expectation there will be a vaccine? Or that the virus will die out like SARs did? Or something else? It's not coming through clearly in the news I've seen/read.

I think it's a little of each of these, and maybe more. There does seem some chance of a vaccine or a treatment that reduces the severity of symptoms. The virus might die out, becoming less virulent or deadly. We could reach herd immunity level. Or we could find out that children can't spread this disease.

All would be great outcomes and allow us to relax these measures, in schools and elsewhere too. I just don't think anyone can be sure yet, either on how likely these things are or on timescales.

The difficulty is that lockdown (and within that keeping schools closed) is not benign.

It is particularly not benign for children who are, to some extent, losing the most whilst gaining the least from lockdown. If everyone in the population was affected by COVID to the same extent as children are we wouldn’t be locked down at all.

There is a balance to be struck. If your only motivation is to prevent deaths from COVID your actions are likely to different than if your motivation is to minimise all harm (including deaths, obviously).

You know what? No! I don’t give a shit if your children come into my classroom and sit facing the wall all day. I don’t give a shit if your children contract the virus and they or someone in their family dies from it. I don’t give a shit about the safety of myself, my 6yo DD, my husband or my 22 week old foetus. I don’t give a shit about my vulnerable parents who would need to collect my DD from her school.

I do give a shit about staying at home and having extra paid holiday.

Oh wait... No. Actually, that’s not it at all.

As their teacher, I grow to love and care for your children almost as much as you do. I give up my evenings and weekends to plan, resource and assess activities that will engage and excite them. I have unpaid holidays not for my benefit (although I certainly need the mental break) but because it benefits your children. I use up endless amounts of mental strength to try and get through to children who have other challenges in their life. I go out of my way to make sure they are as happy and fulfilled as they can be so they head into the world as well-rounded citizens.

Separating tables and removing soft furnishings from my classroom will kill me. I spent a lot of time and my own money kitting making my classroom the best environment it can be for the children to learn and love learning. Not being able to be within 2m of them will be incredibly hard because sometimes children just need a hug or a plaster or you to show them how to work something out.

OP, 2m is to keep everyone safe because if teachers or support staff die, there won’t be people queueing up to replace them. If a child dies, their loss will be felt deeply by their teacher and their school. We are missing your children but keeping them safe is more important right now.

The government guidelines all educational settings have been provided with states that kids should be 1 per desk, minimum 2m apart with no teacher or staff to go within those boundaries either.
Obviously the size of your classrooms then dictates how many kids you can allow in each room.

It is going to be incredibly hard to achieve and will most probably result in children being in for half days only so that all can be accommodated.

Seems like they are kinda banking on a decent percentage of kids being kept at home, to be honest.

Nobody I know is able to define ‘safe’ when I ask them.

Or rather, nobody gives the same definition.

My friend who is furloughed on 100% pay thinks it will be safe in October. A teacher Friend thinks it’s safe in September. Lots of parents think it’s safe now, some don’t think it will be safe until the end of the year. I know a taxi driver who does mainly airport runs, he thinks it’s safe mid June.

It doesn’t help that nobody trusts the government.

However, as far as I can see, individuals’ definition of ‘safe’ correlates to their situation.

Furloughed until October = safe until an arbitrary date that corresponds to end of furlough

Teacher = safe until an arbitrary time that corresponds to school dates

Anxious parent = safe until arbitrary date that corresponds to end of calendar year

Airport Taxi driver = safe until arbitrary date that corresponds to beginning of holiday season

I cannot fail to see these relationships. It’s what happens I suppose when nobody trusts the government, and when everyone is an armchair expert.

The government guidelines all educational settings have been provided with states that kids should be 1 per desk, minimum 2m apart with no teacher or staff to go within those boundaries either.

Could you quote from the guidelines where it states that?

The collection that you want is this one:
www.gov.uk/government/collections/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-for-schools-and-other-educational-settings but would you be able to point me at the exact place in any of these documents when it states what you have said?

I don't feel ashamed for wanting to give my child a semblance of normality.

Even if it means his teacher becomes gravely ill or dies? Ok then.

What about the children?

I would like to think that most children would prefer to stay away from school if it prevents their teacher from potential death but you crack on love.

Some of you on here have no fucking idea. I find your views so shocking so I will leave you to it. Really disgraceful levels of selfishness. Your children would probably be ashamed of you.

@sophiestew

But is seems to me (and correct me if I’ve got this wrong) that your sole focus is to protect people from COVID?

Protecting people from COVID by continuing with lockdown has costs associated with it. If you could lock down for a protracted period of time without any damage then it might be a good option. But you can’t.

I’m not against the lockdown and I’m not saying schools should open on 1st June come what may but I think the risk/benefit balance is in danger of tipping too far the wrong way if the lockdown continues for too much longer in its current form.

There might never be an entirely “safe” time to come out of lockdown although I have great hopes for a vaccine sooner rather than later.

I think the schools and teachers that act like they will implement cruel distancing measures to small children are disgusting, and should not be allowed around kids. By all means, state that you don't think schools are safe to open. Protest or quit if you must. But don't threaten to be cruel. There's no good excuse for it.

Who is threatening to be cruel?

There definitely is a clear divide. Some schools are clearly making the best if a grim situation. Others are being unnecessarily over the top to make a point. Some of the school plans I've seen are cruel