Just talked to someone from Taiwan

[Auntlouisa]

It's so frustrating. Taiwan has a population of 24 million. They've had 7 deaths. All schools and workplaces are operating as normal. They've been told to be careful, but that's it. Their government acted quickly and efficiently and everyone's been wearing face masks from the outset. Their economy will presumably be largely unaffected.
Why do we put up with the leadership we've had on this?

‘Because I find face masks itchy’.

Basically.

Because everyone believes they know the best about the science of face masks.

aunt

Did the government insist/suggest on face Masks

Or did everyone in the country decide by themselves...or is that not part of your conversation

I appreciate you might not have discussed everything just in case some random on mumsnet asked you a question

Face masks might play a small role but I’d suggest by far the bigger reason for the difference is their mass test, track and trace approach from day 1. They have been burned before by previous illnesses like SARS and they learned from that and were ready.

Not a detailed conversation, but yes, they said their government acted quickly, having learned lessons from SARS. But SARS and the lessons learned from it weren't secret. Why didn't our experts and politicians or civil servants learn too?

Face masks might play a small role but I’d suggest by far the bigger reason for the difference is their mass test, track and trace approach from day 1.

This with bells on. The government in the UK are sowing discord amongst the people to divert attention from their failings.

Yes, UK is so behind. Taiwan, HK, Japan, south korea had soooooo much to teach countries like us and the WHO itself ( on every aspect: masks, keeping working, back to school, sports facilities, disinfecting, deep cleaning......) . But cos it's not china it's basically ignored.

Frustrating yes. I'm tempted to move to Taiwan before the next pandemic, but do you think we could have done the same here?

"mask-wearing in Taiwan has become a cultural norm. It is considered a moral virtue to protect others from one’s own infection, so as to break the chain, for the benefit of all."

That wouldn't have worked here for a start. Just read the posts saying that people shouldn't be inconvenienced just to save lives and "I don't have to do what the government says".

Not to mention the people who think the virus is fake.

Why didn't all the other countries do it the way Taiwan did? It's not just us after all.

From another thread just now just as an example "I think we need all to take a stand against masks for all kinds of reasons"

And what if the Taiwanese would like to travel abroad for any reason?

This is the problem with track & trace. Unless the Taiwanese strategy is adopted pan-globally, and to their kinds of standards uniformally, there is no going back to normal as far as I see.

Can we also point out that China refuses to let Taiwan join the WHO, despite Taiwan’ brilliant record at dealing with SARS and COVID?

yes @molto never mind “join” not even allowed to give advice

The Czech Republic have gone online to say the only thing they've done differently from others is wearing masks. They believe it's made a big difference. The Chinese always wear masks now.

@MummyPop00

I believe places like Hong Kong have mandated testing at airports for all new arrivals. It was the first airport in the world to test all incoming passengers. I can see this becoming essential.

It may be interesting to note, that mass wearing of masks in South East Asia is not necessarily for virus protection. This may, or may not be, a by product. It is much more for the sake of filtering out their very high pollution and dust levels, and also, to ensure they don't tan in the summer. The latter I have only just learnt from a Vietnamese friend.

What does slightly baffle me, is that most Westerners that wear masks, pull them down below their noses, and regularly take them off to smoke, talk, cough and sneeze, eat and drink (obviously), and then pull them up again. Therefore completely negating the effectiveness of wearing them at all.

That wouldn't have worked here for a start. Just read the posts saying that people shouldn't be inconvenienced just to save lives and "I don't have to do what the government says".

This.

Masks are a faff.

Track and trace is a violation of privacy.

Lockdown is an infringement of human rights.

And so on. In short, because of the number of selfish twats in this country.

I wear a mask and a lot of PPE to work in. But it is washing my hands and disinfecting all surfaces that have been contaminated by the aerosols generated when I'm messing in peoples mouths that protects me. The mask and visa merely stops my face being covered in blood and saliva.

I know how frustrating it is. My family lives in Hong Kong and I can see from social media that my brother is still out and about with his family. Restaurants, work, going on about his life. It is a densely populated city of 7.5 million and they have 4 deaths.

We could have done so much better.

Taiwan etc have already had their Truly Fucking Horrifying Virus moment. They, government and population alike, all know what can happen and what they can do to avoid the worst of it.

We haven't. Nor did most of the rest of the We Haven't Had One Of Those Yet countries. So no, neither our government nor us the population have learned from the lessons other countries learned. It doesn't work like that.

The real world works in real time... No rear view mirror, application of hindsight or time travel.

Criticise to avoid making more mistakes rather than playing the blame game whilst still in the thick of it!

@MummyPop00 this is what you have to go through if you arrive in Hong Kong twitter.com/laurelchor/status/1260784481159442434

Someone who travelled from Paris documented it. You are mandated to isolate for 14 days with instant testing on arrival. You get a wrist band like those on parole. Unlike here where you can drive from Heathrow to the Isle of Skye without anyone noticing.

@PowerslidePanda it is my human right to infect as many people as possible and if I kill a few on the way well they will all be OAPs and vulnerable anyway.

Not Taiwan but when we visited Hong Kong a few years ago (but after SARS) DH commented on how many people washed their hands after using the loo. He said nearly every man will walk out of a public loo in the U.K. without washing their hands. Yes they use face masks but I think the hand washing plays a big part of it too. DH always comes down with a horrendous cold after spending a day in London once a month using public transport and I suspect it's touching surfaces which lots of people handle.

Face masks are horrible for those of us who lip read a great deal.

And yes, so many people wearing them just over their mouths. No idea what they think the advantage of that is.

...& this is what I’m saying. Hell of a lot of faff. Especially when we are playing catch up. Maybe if this had the CFR of Ebola or MERS, there would be a case for it. But ca. 0.75% ?

Nicola Sturgeon wants to go harder down this route than BoJo it seems. So I guess she’ll be erecting a hard border then?

Hear lie the problems. Pan globally? We can’t even get a whole UK response agreed on.

Think the best thing to do is learn the lessons from this & be absolutely ready in the starting blocks for the next one. Which hopefully won’t be for another 100 years. But, they’ll also be a lot more of us then.

@Baaaahhhhh

I’ve been in nursing homes recently with RGN’s doing exactly that. I clean my hands, put it on and don’t touch it till I throw it in the bin.